Intonation Question

[Longhair]

I was doing the intonation on my guitar (RG570 w/ Edge Tremolo) today. I am using a Korg DTR-2000 for the tuner to make sure it is in tune...

Anyways, I did the harmonic on the 5, 7, 12 and 24. They were all perfect. Then I fretted the 12 fret and perfect. Now when I fret the 24th one, it is 1 or 2 "lights" off. When I adjust it to get it perfectly in tune, the rest goes off a couple of "light".

I ended up re-adjusting it to where everything was perfect except for the 24th fretted note.

Any ideas on how to make them all perfect? Or should I leave it as it is?

[nuno]

that's odd.
but what is off like, upper or lower than the pitch at 24th fret? and is your guitar neck straight?

[Longhair]

When everything is perfect, the pitch is sharp on the 24th fret.

When the 24th fret is perfect, the pitch is flat on everything else.

I have a little bit of a bow in the neck, but nothing where I am able to shoot arrows from. The action is low enough where I like it and there is the occational fret buzz around the 2nd - 5th frets - once again, nothing that carries though the amp.

[nuno]

well, the only thing that comes in my mind is that you may press the 24th fret a little bit too hard than how you press the other frets...

or maybe the 24th hasnt been placed correctly, it could be a matter of a tenth of a millimeter, dont know...

[Rich]

Compare the 23rd to the 11th, the 22nd to the 10th, they should also match.

[bachle7]

Unless you play most of your solos on the 24th fret, I wouldn't worry too much about it, especially since the rest of the guitar is perfectly in tune.

[frankfalbo]

Right.
I'd like to take this opportunity to also vent about the 24th fret intonation check. (please don't flame me) I've heard some guys advocate it, and I understand why. But first off, many times the fret location is a bit off by the time you get up there. And the slightest difference in fret crown or fret placement can throw the reading off-more "off" than at the 12th for example. Also, I am more interested in chords from fret 1-12 sounding in tune with eachother, than if my wailing solo (with vibrato by the way) above the 12th fret is a little off. If you make 3-4 note chords up there past the 15th I appologize. But I sure don't. If I do it's funky scratchy stuff that's more about percussion and dissonance than about long smooth chords.

Also, you have to intonate your own guitars to match your squeeze pressure IMO. If you dig into the strings and pull them sharp against jumbo frets, you have to intonate a little flat or better yet, intonate in playing position using your technique. If you have a light touch, you can intonate a little more precisely. When doing guitars for customers I just intonate "mathematically." That is, simply apply enough pressure to properly fret the note, and no more. Also I notice some players attack the strings going forward. That can push a note flat. The opposite is also true. That is much more noticeable on the higher frets. You can get the 24th fret to match the harmonic on the tuner just by how you hold the note down!

[Rich]

I advocate last fret intonation and always will. Your are right it's better to intonate yourself with the pressure *you* apply, but I intonate the last fret as you intonate the 12th, "mathmatically"? if you want to term it that, just enough pressure to get a clear note

[many people actually do play chords way up the neck, and even if they don't, being closer to perfectly in tune up there cannot be discounted when playing single notes either]

[MicJustMic]

I agree with Rich, for years I intonated as I was taught, at the 12th, and was always frustrated that it was always just a little out in the 'very' high positions.

One day I had a serious "DUH!" moment . . . started intonating at the last fret and found that on most guitars this was MUCH better.

Sure on some it would put the string out in the lower positions, sometimes a LOT out in the lower positions, so you compensate/compromise.

Easy. :-)

No guitar is perfect, so it's always give and take.

Mic

[Rich]

It was a "Duh" moment for me too. Rolland Schemers had bought a new UV and was very happy except he said the intonation was way off. Clueless as I always checked intonation the "normal" way I pulled out a guitar and started futzing around until I found out EVERYTHING in the higher registers was way off. I intonated it to the last fret and the difference was night and day. Haven't looked back

Back to the original question the 12th should not be flat with the 24th in tune unless the action is high or you are fretting the string with too much pressure. If that's the pressure you normally use when playing up there then compromise and spit the "out of tune" between the 12th and 24th. With single notes the intonation is not as critical, it's when you play chords that intonation becomes glaring, first rule is make the chords sound in tune.

[frankfalbo]

I leave you with this: Every cent you take for frets 12-24 is bought from 1-12.

[jemsite]

Originally Posted by frankfalbo

I leave you with this: Every cent you take for frets 12-24 is bought from 1-12.

shhhh.... don't bring reality into this discussion

i'm dumbfounded people want 24-th fret intonation over a nicely intonated usable fretboard, but it's a free country ...glen

[Rich]

I totally disagree. I'd bet 20 cents at the 24th might equal one cent at the first. You can move a saddle 1cm and the first fret will still be in tune. Try it. Move that saddle 1mm and see how far it changes at the last fret. So sorry if having a more precisely tuned guitar across the whole fretboard is against your sense of reality

[jemsite]

i know you disagree as you post several times weekly regarding this topic even though rarely do we see the obvious retort that frank posted ... glen

[Rich]

I guess Frank just decided to speak *his* mind, and although he is the only one that has an opinion against it, I respect his opinion, I just don't believe he's correct. But you can hang on whoever's coat tails you wish