Kahlers .... Are underated ...

j.arledge · #1 08-02-2009, 03:45 AM

I work as a guitar tech at my local music shop and a guy brought in an 80s peavey with a kahler flyer trem.

Kahlers are a better design, they don't cut out as much wood and have much smoother action.

I know they are a little more expensive but why aren't they more popular ? I know that the ibanez ZR is an awsome trem and it is bearing based like a kahler but the kahler trem itself isn't used by a lot of people. I am fairly sure gibson owns them which i guess probably has something to do with thier lack of popularity.

I can say that i am sold. Floyd rose knife edges wear and they take a little while to setup but a kahler runs on a bearing so it dosn't matter where the bridge is set at (at least not nearly as much) , the only thing about kahlers are the springs. Kahler recommends that you change the springs every 3 to 5 years. Other than that what isn't to like about them?

littlephil · #2 08-02-2009, 06:12 AM

They have less range IIRC, and they are more expensive. Plus (some of them) go out of tune with bends (not like a Floyd where the change in tension pulls others out of tune, they stay out of tune)

thesimo · #3 08-02-2009, 09:54 AM

I dont own one but the rollers sound like they could "clink" as the wound strings roll back and forth over them. Also if u were to divebomb the strings may pop off the rollers and not go back into the right place exactly.

callen3615 · #4 08-02-2009, 10:20 AM

I like to bend. I dont like kahlers.

toneboy · #5 08-02-2009, 11:23 AM

I tried one of the Kahler cam trems when they first came out and I didn't like it. Way too much maintenance and far too complicated which made them less dependable than Floyds. Not too mention that the behind-the-nut string lock was no where near as good as a locking nut. There are plenty of reasons why they pretty much died out.

On the other, I had one of their fixed bridges on a Jackson and I liked it.

lhrocker · #6 08-02-2009, 11:34 AM

I had Kahlers in all my guitars in the 80's. Never had any issues - stayed in tune perfectly and could do double stop bends without taking everything out of tune. Plus you could adjust the radius for any guitar. I didn't like the locking nut so much, but the Kahler worked great for me.

toneboy · #7 08-02-2009, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lhrocker

I didn't like the locking nut so much

That's because it wasn't/isn't a locking nut - it's a string lock.

j.arledge · #8 08-02-2009, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toneboy

That's because it wasn't/isn't a locking nut - it's a string lock.

well you could always use a floyd nut, hell even a good graphite nut and locking tuners would work, people do that with floyds.

i didn't see that the kahler i played had a more limited range of anything i thought it traveled a little further than some floyds i have played.

either way some floyds have issues with big bends and double stop bends. They have backstops and whatnot for floyds to help with some of those issues.

They have steel kahlers like the floyds but they also have brass on steel plus they are making kahlers in 8 string versions .

either way i'd like to own one, so i will be on the look out for something cheap equipped with a kahler

nickcoumbe · #9 08-02-2009, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by j.arledge

well you could always use a floyd nut, hell even a good graphite nut and locking tuners would work, people do that with floyds.

I am in this camp.

I know it is not the same, but I had a Kahler Spyder trem (I think on an HM strat) and it was really good actually.

kotornut · #10 08-02-2009, 11:46 PM

I say no trem. Everyone just makes sound effects on them anyways. Even Steve Vai and Satch just make noise on 'em. Then you have to deal with out of tuneness, warble, less sustain (don't argue it's entirely true), pitch shifting, knife edges and on and on. All for what, a flippin' dive bomb? What a joke.

Yeah, I can see that some noise from them is cool, but as fars as I'm concerned trem use is completely unecissary. Of course, I'm on the wrong forum to have this opinion and I don't doubt someone will soon make a very well constructed and advertisemnet like argument for the floyd style tremelo, but I'm not biting. I have a Lo-pro edge and as good as it is for what it's supposed to do, it's just a noise maker. Ok, maybe a little vibrato (which is actually what a trem does, it doesn't actually do tremelo at all) sounds good. Like SRV would do in a clean part or what ever, but all the shredders they just make noise on them.

Homebake · #11 08-03-2009, 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kotornut

I say no trem. Everyone just makes sound effects on them anyways. Even Steve Vai and Satch just make noise on 'em. Then you have to deal with out of tuneness, warble, less sustain (don't argue it's entirely true), pitch shifting, knife edges and on and on. All for what, a flippin' dive bomb? What a joke.

Yeah, I can see that some noise from them is cool, but as fars as I'm concerned trem use is completely unecissary. Of course, I'm on the wrong forum to have this opinion and I don't doubt someone will soon make a very well constructed and advertisemnet like argument for the floyd style tremelo, but I'm not biting. I have a Lo-pro edge and as good as it is for what it's supposed to do, it's just a noise maker. Ok, maybe a little vibrato (which is actually what a trem does, it doesn't actually do tremelo at all) sounds good. Like SRV would do in a clean part or what ever, but all the shredders they just make noise on them.

wow, cool argument dude...

there are a trillion ways you can make music and not just "noises" with whammy's. obviously it's subjective as to what is "music" but there is a definite line.

also, they don't go out of tune...

kotornut · #12 08-03-2009, 01:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Homebake

wow, cool argument dude...

there are a trillion ways you can make music and not just "noises" with whammy's. obviously it's subjective as to what is "music" but there is a definite line.

also, they don't go out of tune...

Cut the sarcasm, there is no need to do so. I didn't personally come after you. It's just my opinion and my argument. You don't have to agree, but you don't need to be sarcastic about it.

Your strings never go out of tune? Your G never goes flat after a lot of trem action? Why do they put locking nuts and fine tuners on a the guitar then if they don't go out of tune?

Look, I know some will argue what is and isn't music, but seriously no one can deny that very few artists are musical with a trem. Very few. A divebomb, sure it's fun but what does it add to 90% of the music you hear it in? Look at the kids on youtube, very unmusical with a trem. I know they are not the highest level but that's my point. Only a couple of people actually use it in a way that is useful and musical. So as for me and my guitar I say no trem.

ME and MY guitar, not your's Homebake. Look at my post, "I say no trem." You can do whatever you like. Go bust a divebomb and have good time.

moonlight · #13 08-03-2009, 03:42 AM

It's not only dive bombs. Bending the pitch up is easy, if you like that effect why not a small pitch bend down. The only way to do that is a trem. I don't use it much but like to have it available.

kotornut · #14 08-03-2009, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moonlight

It's not only dive bombs. Bending the pitch up is easy, if you like that effect why not a small pitch bend down. The only way to do that is a trem. I don't use it much but like to have it available.

Forgot about the pitch up, but still not worth it for me.

GuitarBizarre · #15 08-03-2009, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kotornut

Cut the sarcasm, there is no need to do so. I didn't personally come after you. It's just my opinion and my argument. You don't have to agree, but you don't need to be sarcastic about it.

Your strings never go out of tune? Your G never goes flat after a lot of trem action? Why do they put locking nuts and fine tuners on a the guitar then if they don't go out of tune?

Look, I know some will argue what is and isn't music, but seriously no one can deny that very few artists are musical with a trem. Very few. A divebomb, sure it's fun but what does it add to 90% of the music you hear it in? Look at the kids on youtube, very unmusical with a trem. I know they are not the highest level but that's my point. Only a couple of people actually use it in a way that is useful and musical. So as for me and my guitar I say no trem.

ME and MY guitar, not your's Homebake. Look at my post, "I say no trem." You can do whatever you like. Go bust a divebomb and have good time.

Out of tune you say? I beg to differ sir -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LGyg...e=channel_page

Not to mention there are a whole ****load of ways to make musical effects with a tremolo system.

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