Lower Action on an Ovation

Champagne Mist · #1 09-02-2007, 08:23 PM

To all you Ovation owners out there:

I bought a used 1862 Custom Balladeer about 6 years ago. It was manufactured in 1988. It was in superb condition, with no neck warps or scratches or anything.

The action was always a little high for me, but my guitar duties were on rhythm, so I didn't bother with it. Then I didn't play it for a while, but I've pulled it back out recently and would like to lower the action. My plan was just to remove a few shims from under the saddle, but I removed the saddle, and surprise: no shims at all! The action is not low on this guitar, not for an Ovation anyway. I just find it surprising that its still high with no shims... At the 12th fret, from top of fret to string, its about 3.5/32" on high E and 5.5/32 on low E. Chording above the 7th or 8th fret is worthless. I'm kind of at a loss of what to do here. The neck is in good condition, with a slight warp, but nothing terrible, in fact if anything, it could use a smidgen more warp. I thought of filing down the bridge at each string, but I'd rather not. Does anyone have any suggestions or similar experiences?

Most other acoustics I've played (non-Ovation) haven't been this bad about the 9th fret.

sniperfrommars1 · #2 09-02-2007, 08:58 PM

You could give it a touch less bow, if it has front bow in the neck. Either way i think your going to have to have the bridge adjusted, by removing material from it, or removing this one, and having a tech install a new one for you. If you simply shave it down at each string the piezo is going to suffer tonally. I know several players who merely sand the bridge along the curver and lower it in that manner, but if you get too low..........youll need to shim. You would get the best results out of this guitar if you took it in for a setup, and if its been a lifelong friend the guitar probably deserves the extra maintenance. Just my two cents

Champagne Mist · #3 09-02-2007, 09:10 PM

Yeah, it could use it, and a little fret work as well. I guess my main concern is being able to adjust it when I want to, for example, when I put heavier strings on it. I'm afraid of attempting to shave or chip away the wood below the saddle just because there isn't much there before you hit the top. And yeah, I don't want to file the piezo because to get it where i want it i'd really have to go deep. I considered maybe having the neck angle adjusted too, but I'd like to exhaust all my possibilities before taking it in for any major luthier work.

David McCarroll · #4 09-02-2007, 10:28 PM

The standard way of lowering the action on an acoustic is to shave material off the bottom of the saddle, not the top. - I can't remember how the Ovation electronics work, but if it is a piezo pickup under the saddle, you have to be very careful to get a dead flat surface contacting the pickup, and that sits snugly in the saddle slot without leaning over otherwise you can end up with dead spots on the pickup - very annoying. The other thing to watch is that as you lower the saddle, you reduce the "break" angle of the strings over it, which means less pressure on the saddle - ultimately leading to loss of sustain and tone (think Fender Jazzmaster/Jaguar here)

Champagne Mist · #5 09-02-2007, 10:36 PM

Unfortunately on Ovations with the piezo, it is made of metal, not wood, so removing material from the bottom of the saddle is not an option I have.

sniperfrommars1 · #6 09-02-2007, 10:40 PM

Watch out on the heavier strings, most ovations arent designed for them at all, and ive seen several cracked tops on these things.

crevis · #7 09-02-2007, 10:40 PM

I've found that on alot of acoustics the face of the guitar warps at the bridge, it happens more on cutaways. Sadly that is not repairable.

Champagne Mist · #8 09-02-2007, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sniperfrommars1

Watch out on the heavier strings, most ovations arent designed for them at all, and ive seen several cracked tops on these things.

Yeah, I never use anything heavier than mediums. When I want a fuller sound, I use medium. But with the high action, if I want to do anything other than chording, I put on lights.

Quote:

Originally Posted by crevis

I've found that on alot of acoustics the face of the guitar warps at the bridge, it happens more on cutaways. Sadly that is not repairable.

I was hoping not to hear that. It is warped at the bridge, not severe, but slightly noticeable. It just doesn't look to me like that could account for the strings being as high as they really are. I guess with the way the Ovation bridge is designed, I could see this being more of a problem than on other guitars, since the tension tends to pull the back of the Ovation bridge forward, more than what could be expected when the string passes through the top and is held in place with a bridge pin.

jb4674 · #9 09-02-2007, 11:28 PM

What kind of low action are you trying to achieve? From what I remember, I took out 2 shims off my elite 6868 and the action is nice and decent. You won't be able to get Jem action on an Ovation, and if that's what you're looking for then you shouldn't even be playing an acoustic guitar.

At this point, I would suggest you take it to an authorized dealer or repair shop that deals only with Ovation products so they can adjust the guitar to your liking but not mess it up in the process. The piezo element in the Ovation bridges is very delicate and if you start filing stuff from it, you could wind up with a bigger problem.

Jimmy

Champagne Mist · #10 09-03-2007, 12:07 AM

I'm not looking for jem action on an Ovation. I'm looking for Ovation action on an Ovation. I've got just about 3/16" between string and fret at the 12th on the low strings--no where even approaching "jem action". I'd just like to get it to where its playable above the 12th fret.

toshiro · #11 09-03-2007, 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crevis

I've found that on alot of acoustics the face of the guitar warps at the bridge, it happens more on cutaways. Sadly that is not repairable.

They used to make something called the "Bridge Doctor" that fixed this issue. I installed a few a couple years ago, and it works well(to a degree).

David McCarroll · #12 09-03-2007, 01:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crevis

I've found that on alot of acoustics the face of the guitar warps at the bridge, it happens more on cutaways. Sadly that is not repairable.

well, it is, but you have to take the top off and rebrace it... ;^)

jb4674 · #13 09-03-2007, 02:06 AM

What string gauge are you using? If the action is that high, then you should also have the truss adjusted.

Jimmy

Rotti · #14 09-03-2007, 08:45 AM

Quote:

I was hoping not to hear that. It is warped at the bridge, not severe, but slightly noticeable.

It is perfectly normal for the body to be warped a little behind the bridge if this is what your talking about. Even if it is really bad the bridge itself can be shaved down to compensate.(it's all fixable) Maybe just going to a lighter guage string will lower the tension and help with the action a little.

What part of the bridge setup is made of metal?
Normaly you shave some off the bottom of the bone or plastic saddle. The saddle is not metal right? Is the peizo strip glued to the bottom of the saddle or something?

From reading your questions and answers ("file down the peizo" "Chip away at the wood under the saddle") I would say leave it to a reputable pro if you care about the guitar.
All it will probably need is a regular setup from a luthier. It won't cost much and you will probably be amazed at how it plays and sounds when you get it back.

Champagne Mist · #15 09-03-2007, 11:58 PM

Well, since I have no experience messing with acoustics I wasn't going to gallantly start hacking, sawing, filing, chipping or hammering.

To answer a few of the question that have popped up:

The measurements that I mentioned in my first post were made with light gauge strings, .011-.052. I don't think its a truss rod issue, as I've made all the suggested checks for bow, and it seems to be pretty close to ideal. But like I said, I've never really worked with acoustics.

The metal part of the saddle is the base that the piezo sits in--basically the piece that holds the individual pieces together. The metal part sits down on the bottom of the saddle slot (or on the shims) in the bridge.

It sounds like the consensus is that someone else should take a look at it.

[Checks wallet. *Sigh* Puts guitar back in closet]