Neck angle : is this normal ? (pics)

Professor Jones · #1 01-08-2009, 03:44 PM

I just bought an S540, made in 92. Here is a pic that shows what bothers me :

img340.imageshack.us/img340/5126/img1260pd0.jpg

(sorry I wasn't allowed to post a full link because of my post count...)

You can clearly see that the neck is slanted backwards. Is this normal ?
The guitar has a thin neck shim that was apparently installed at the factory. How did they know if the guitar needed a shim or not ?

Thanks to anyone who can help me !

Foulacy · #2 01-08-2009, 03:52 PM

you don't know if it needs a shim or not unless the trem can't go any lower and the action is still too high. a lot of guitars play better with shims, some dont. take it out and see how things go, no harm done.

The Euphor · #3 01-08-2009, 04:26 PM

That is no small shim. Looks insane to me... Maybe there's a rat in there.

Professor Jones · #4 01-08-2009, 04:39 PM

Well it's about 0.5 mm thick... but yes when you look at the pics it really gives the impression that the shim is huge.

brothersnowgone · #5 01-09-2009, 02:51 AM

It looks like the body isn't routed to fit the end of the fretboard in all the way. Are you sure the end of the board isn't catching the body? Cause a .5 mm shim shouldn't do that.

Professor Jones · #6 01-09-2009, 06:02 PM

I checked and neck is seated right and tight in the pocket.

Here are some pics of the shim and the neck :

Should I try removing the shim ? If the factory put it there in the first place, there must be a good reason (unless they did that automatically at the time).

LuredMaul · #7 01-09-2009, 07:32 PM

Try it without; if it doesn't work out........put it back in...................no harm no foul.

EvoGiant · #8 01-09-2009, 07:59 PM

everytime i ever shimmed a neck, it was the entire pocket. like just to raise the entire neck. if you just shim the front or back, then you get a funny pitch like that....again, it may be my limited knowledge, but thats always worked for me....

TKO Ken · #9 01-09-2009, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brothersnowgone

It looks like the body isn't routed to fit the end of the fretboard in all the way. Are you sure the end of the board isn't catching the body? Cause a .5 mm shim shouldn't do that.

That's the same thing I was thinking. It looks like the neck pocket was routed too deep for that neck. Wrong neck maybe?

Professor Jones · #10 01-10-2009, 05:03 AM

The neck is the original one. The previous owner didn't play it much (it's in great condition for a guitar from 1992), and wasn't tech savvy at all. All he did was change the strings. Heck, he didn't even touch the truss rod. When I unscrewed the cover, it still had some bits of plastic film (the one you also find on pick guards when the guitar is new) over one of the screw holes. I will try removing the shim (it's glued) and see what happens. I ordered some packs of EX120 and I'm still waiting for them, till then I can't really try the guitar.

TKO Ken · #11 01-10-2009, 01:19 PM

It looks like that angle of the neck is more severe than a 0.5 mm shim would create. If you place the neck into the pocket behind the shim, does the fretboard overhang look like it will clear the body? If not, then the neck rout is too deep or the neck profile is too shallow. (looking at the photo again I would say this is case, notice how low the binding and the 15th fret side marker is into the body) If it does clear the body, (I willing to bet that it doesn't) then it might have been shimmed for one of two reasons. Either the tremolo or the bridge will not adjust low enough to get useable action on the neck or, it may have been shimmed in order to get the strings higher off the body so it would play more comfortablely.

!!!WHATEVER YOU DO, DO NOT BOLT IT TO TOGETHER WITHOUT THE SHIM!!!

looking at the pict. I would NOT bolt it together without the shim!!! If the neck profile is too shallow or the pocket is too deep, when you tighten the screws you will break the fretboard off the end of neck and then you've really got trouble!!!

Professor Jones · #12 01-10-2009, 02:50 PM

I removed the shim and screwed the neck back into place, now the end of the fretboard is closer to be the body but it's still not touching it (not a problem tho).

The body is lightly curved in this area, and this could explain why the dot at the 17th fret is partly hidden.

Anybody knows if this normal on a Saber series guitar from 92 ?

wiorys · #13 02-07-2009, 08:06 AM

its not normal

JohnnyRG1527 · #14 02-07-2009, 12:38 PM

i'd say that needs a shim under the 18th and a truss tweak, but i'm no expert....

Professor Jones · #15 02-08-2009, 09:29 AM

Just a little update, I stringed the guitar and set it up without the shim, and it plays beautifully. Low action with no buzzes, in fact I've never had a guitar with such low action ! I really love it, and for 350 euros it's a hell of a deal !