"New cut" trem posts installed - Results...

RobV · #1 01-08-2003, 01:20 PM

Well I had some initial problems with my RG 520 staying in tune. I went through and did a complete set up and filed my knife edges down just as Rich described in his documents.

Still no luck. I then ordered some of the "new cut" trem posts from Ibanez.

In the mean time I took my current posts out, and had a guy at work turn them on a lathe very carefully. After installing them I had much better results staying in tune, almost perfect, but still not great after some heavy whammy use.

I just received the "new" posts from Ibanez last week and put them in. So far they seem to work pretty good. I still have it go out of tune slightly, but hardley noticable when playing live. They seem a bit better than my original "modded" posts.

It's only been a couple days, so the jury is still out. Just thought I'd let everyone know in case they're having the same problem.

Rob

Rich · #2 01-08-2003, 09:05 PM

The whole idea is to get it down to where it goes out of tune on pullups so little that you can't tell, and if you've gotten that result congrats. That 100% perfect float is very tough to achieve and I haven't cracked it yet, just know how to get close "enough". Filing the knives does nothing without the posts, and the posts themselves don't do it either, it's the combination that works

Kevan · #3 01-08-2003, 09:17 PM

Hmmm...I've got 100% perfect float on my guitars...with new posts and old ones. No filing either (factory or myself).

Rich · #4 01-08-2003, 09:19 PM

I'm not going through this again, believe whatever fantasy you want. Out.

YaYoGakk · #5 01-08-2003, 09:22 PM

Yeah... I have no tuning problems with my guitars either. Heavy whammy use and my tuning is the same as when I started. Even with the TRS. :-\ haha I've never files the lo-pro on my yamaha and it's been on there for 7 or 8 years, I think.

Alden

Rich · #6 01-08-2003, 10:01 PM

I was very happily oblivious for 8 years too

caprile · #7 01-08-2003, 10:01 PM

My 11 year uv can come out of the case after 2 weeks in tune, and
my 2001 RG570 is in tune for about 10 minutes, with no bar use at all.

I'll change the posts on the RG when I get them.

Rich · #8 01-08-2003, 10:34 PM

Let me try to make this clear.

If you just push down on the bar, or don't use the bar at all, any tuning problem you encounter has nothing to do with the posts or knives. More than likely something is loose or the strings aren't properly stretched.

If you pull up on the bar, and more importantly, if you pull up and not push it back down past neutral, this is where you will see the problem. And again, the majority of the people will never even notice it's out of tune. It can vary by slightly sharp to WAY sharp. Push it back past neutral and wham, back in perfect tune.

This is something [as I've said] I was happily oblivious too for 8 years. Never even noticed, it's not really part of the way I play to pull up and leave up, I was always way to whammy happy and inevitably would whammy the bar down after any pull up. The amount of sharp it would be out when I "would" just pull up just wasn't enough for me to notice. Happily oblivious.

Fortunately [or unfortunately depending on your perspective] there are many people out that extremely sensitive to perfect pitch, that also incorporate a pure pull up into their style of play. Rodney Jamez is one of these people and his 2000 Floral also happened to be one of the worst offenders. The low E would run "almost" to E# on a pullup. [yes, even *I* could hear it, and it annoyed me, Rodney it was driving crazy]

For players like this there is a cure. If you do not fall into this category then just stay happily oblivious the way I always was for 8 years [and would still be if it wasn't for players like Rodney complaining about their tuning]. If it's not a problem to *you*, then there's no problem that needs to be addressed. This is a small % of players it will annoy, and if it's not you, just ignore these threads

caprile · #9 01-08-2003, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich

Let me try to make this clear.

If you just push down on the bar, or don't use the bar at all, any tuning problem you encounter has nothing to do with the posts or knives. More than likely something is loose or the strings aren't properly stretched.

That I didn't know. Thanks!

Maybe I've been playing too much Jobim....damn dissonant chords, you can hear any little tuning variance!

steeda · #10 01-08-2003, 10:48 PM

I am guessing the people who say they have perfect float aren't verifying this on an analog tuner? I can't get any better than a 5 or so cent drift, but ONLY when you pull up and let go slowly ( so as not to cause flutter ). The G string on my JEM is the only real offender that goes sharp about 5 cents ( which is about 2 Hz. ). The others only go about 2 cents sharp. Btw, only someone with INSANE perfect pitch can detect this by ear. I just tested with my tuners to check it out. When you do dives etc, the trem seems to always return perfect.

EDIT: Thought I'd add that I never have to retune, or anything like that. The strings stay where they are stretch/position wise, etc. The trem will just need "nudged" a bit to go back to neutral after a pullup of the sort Rich mentioned which you will probably never do anyway. ( I am talking about ever so slightly flicking your finger on it once, it's that minor. )

caprile · #11 01-08-2003, 10:52 PM

I couldn't detect a note by itself if it was off a few cents, however, in chords, I can hear it clearly, no tuner needed.

Kevan · #12 01-08-2003, 10:55 PM

Yeah...I'll ignore my mortgage bills too. :-)
I just have a tough time with the spreading of paranoia. I only answer these threads to provide counterpoint to the difficulty you seem to have. At first I thought it was magic, or my "special touch", but then more and more people I talked to have the same thing- perfect tune no matter which way the trem goes.
Filing metal away isn't always the answer, and I'd hate for some kid to get a JEM10, not set it up properly, and start filing away...only to seriously botch his trem, jack the tuning beyond repair, then yell up and down about how crappy the $xxxx guitar is.
As stated before, first try new posts. If that doesn't work, and you feel compelled to file down your knife edges, just know that you can never get that metal back should you ever need it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich

I'm not going through this again, believe whatever fantasy you want. Out.

It's not really a fantasy. It's actual fact. If you'd like video or whatever of EXACTLY the motions you described, with results displayed before your very eyes, let me know. I'd be more than happy to shoot that for you.
You can even pick the guitar!

Steeda- both Rich and I are using digital tuners, but I'd be happy to plug into any analog tuner and test any of my guitars.

**jemsite** · #13 01-08-2003, 10:57 PM

deja vu.

Rich · #14 01-08-2003, 10:57 PM

For some reason I can't explain the G is a frequent offender. The last 2 RGT's I've done the float was as good as it gets but the G would return pretty sharp, and I can't figure why.

I should have stated this a little better ;

If you just push down on the bar, or don't use the bar at all, any tuning problem you encounter has nothing to do with the posts or knives. More than likely something is loose or the strings aren't properly stretched.

You could have a problem with damaged knives or plain worn out posts. This should of course be checked to rule out. Even if you never use the trem the act of bending strings itself is moving the trem and if there's something damaged in the pivot point it can cause a problem with your stability. Sorry for the omission

**jemsite** · #15 01-08-2003, 10:59 PM

the g is subject to the largest change in pitch, for a given amount of travel (movement of the trem). this is why the g offers the most pullup... glen