Replacing Edge with Floyd - can this get the bass back? - Page 2 - Jemsite
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  #16  
Old 12-07-2002, 11:01 PM
littlegreenman  is offline
 
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yeah, but all his guitars are the same except the trems :P

Dude, I don't wanna sound like a dick, but nobody here has likely tried, out of all the mods you tried, I really think that you won't be satisfied until you try this one yourself. The mod would be easy, pull out the studs in an ibanez, and put new studs for a new trem in, even if you have to have them machined to fit the existing holes, I'm fairly certain the spacing would be the same.

here is another though, try TRS equipped Ibanez, they mount virtually indentical to a Floyd rose, not only that, they are a plate steel trem like a floyd.

You sound upset because nobody has answered what you asked, maybe it's only because nobody here has done it, and it's not likely anyone will anytime soon. We are all very happy with the Edge's, and if there is a shortcoming, it seems we are willing to deal with it.

Sorry it's not the answer you want, but it's the best I can give.
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  #17  
Old 12-08-2002, 04:53 AM
wizard333  is offline
 
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No no, not upset because no one could answer or has done it. I figured it was a long shot but worth a try. And I'm not sure its the Edge, its just the only variable I can think of except the neck, which seems less likely.

Thing is Im a tone FREAK, I'm not saying that I'm getting no low end off the edge guitars, its not my guitar/amp combo. Through any amp the others have a warmth in the low end the Edge ones dont by comparison through the same rig, thats my only point. Its not really lack of low end, its certain frequencies that I would describe as woody. I use Marshall JCM 800s 2205s and 2210s (which I firmly believe are the best overdrive amps ever, and I've tested them against damn near everything), and sometimes the Fender American Tube series Deluxe or Junior. The Boogie Rectifiers are nice to, and pump tons of low, point is if I was running both kinds of guitars through those the Edge ones would still be missing something. Its not just oomph, its tone. My 520s with PAF pros and Air Zones have more low end than my Legacies with Virtual 2s; I can get a ton of low out of any guitar you want by putting the right pickup in it. It wont capture that smoothness, woodiness, and roundness correctly though unless its inherent in the instrument. Its like using an EQ; you can only boost and cut whats already there but you cant add anything that doesnt already exist.

I don't keep all my guitars the same, there is quite a bit of variation. I have darn near every Dimarzio Duncan and Kinman model pickup and equip all kind of different ways. What I meant to say was that I have made them all the same at one time or another, or as close as possible by holding pickups/electronics etc constant, in order to do tesing. Thats just scientific method, you want to hold constant as many variables as possible so when you find a variation you can zero in on the source. If I take two 570s with the same string guage, action height, fret condition, tone pots and cap values, wired the same way, and put different pickups in both, I can be as sure as you are ever going to be that most of the difference I'm hearing is the pickups. Enough to make a pretty definite statement about the qualities of those pickups vis a vis each other in that setup. Conversely, if I take two strat shaped Alder bodies finished with PPG paint, wired the same, pots and caps, jacks, pickguard material, pickups, and one has an Ibanez neck and Edge trem and another has a typical strat style neck with Floyd or other trem, both rosewood/maple, set them up with the same strings and action, same fret size and condition, I can be pretty darn sure that most of the difference is caused by the Ibanez neck and or trem vs the other neck/trem.

Dont misunderstand and think I dont like Ibanez or something; I have more of them than anything else because I LOVE the feel of the necks, nothing comes anywhere close in terms of ergonomics. I'm a perfectionist though, and if I could get an Ibanez neck'd guitar to get that same woodiness and roundness of a strat (floyd equiped), it would be perfect and I could sell 15 out of 20 of my guitars lol. I'll keep tryin though, maybe when I finally get real close I'll be able to pass it along for those who are interested.

Thanks for trying to help though. Figured it was a long shot but thought there may be someone out there on the same quest.

Regards
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  #18  
Old 12-08-2002, 10:08 AM
Jeff  is offline
 
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Have you ever thought about your technique? It could all just be in your fingers, mind you.
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  #19  
Old 12-08-2002, 12:24 PM
musicdr  is offline
 
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I'm a firm believer that my ears change daily,might be barometric pressure,I need a q-tip,I talked on the phone too long,who knows! The fact is I can play the exact guitar through the exact rig with the exact settings and not,to my ears get the same tone I had yesterday.This phenomenon has cost me thousands of dollars in mods,equipment changes etc.(its pretty fun though,too).Finally I just bought what I considered the best gear and figured if I can't get a decent tone through 17 glowing tubes and celestions,I give up.I certainly appreciate the scientific nature of your quest and I wish you luck solving it.It will be interesting to hear the result.I'm glad my ears are not as sensitive as yours,because I would go crazier than I already am.
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  #20  
Old 12-09-2002, 01:04 AM
wizard333  is offline
 
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I'm sure its not my technique; I don't play any different on an ibanez than a strat hehe, just more comfortably.
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  #21  
Old 02-26-2013, 02:16 PM
gauchosilvertone  is offline
 
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Re: Replacing Edge with Floyd - can this get the bass back?


Resurrecting an eleven year old thread here because this is a topic I am looking for feedback on.

Wizard333, if you're still around:

I have a 1997 RG520QS- you know the one; mahogany body and quilted sapele top. I am exactly like you in that I play my Ibanezes more than my much more expensive guitars because of the feel...just like a part of me. I went to great lengths to reclaim this particular axe after a dumb trade, because I missed the feel and that certain i-don't-know-what about it.

Now I've got it back, and while I am thrilled to have it, reality killed romance a bit in that the tone was lacking. Partially I'm sure it's due to the lousy environment the guitar was in, but that's another story. For me the bass response was more muddy than missing. Sure to elicit the whole "what pickups are you using?" and "well it's mahogany" responses, I know, but the overall tone was a bit blah. Bass in particular was flubby and mids lacked definition and the crisp harmonics I like to hear (not talking pinch harmonics; maybe overtones would be a better word).

I had an OFR lying around from a 1987 Kramer, presumably made in 87 if not 86 (Germany). The trem itself is very considerably heavier than the two original Edge trems I've had (one from 1990; the other this 1997). I'd been wanting to try it in something, and here was the opportunity. I swapped it two nights ago.

Bottom line- I feel like a totally unfaithful Ibanez enthusiast, but tonally, this alone has made a huge difference. I don't know if it's the fix for you because if anything the overall tone is a bit brighter, but I don't mean that in the sense of having less bass or even more highs, at least not in terms of the fundamental pitches. The bass is just tighter, which in a sense makes it sound more present...it's much more immediate in response. The other "brighter" bit is in the sense of those upper overtones I was speaking to earlier.

All of this is equally apparent unplugged and amped.

Hope this doesn't fall on deaf ears. Love to know if anyone else has done this in the past eleven years- especially on a basswood RG. I traded away a 1990 550 because no matter what I did, and no matter how comfortable it was, the tone was the epitome of blah. Wish I'd had this OFR to try in it then.
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  #22  
Old 02-26-2013, 03:50 PM
LonePhantom  is offline
 
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Re: Replacing Edge with Floyd - can this get the bass back?


Swap the sustain block for a brass one, that will do the job for you.

If you look through this sub-forum I have a source for brass and titanium sustain blocks that are shaped like the stock ones, so you won't have any pull up issues, just the better, fuller tone. Prices will be good too. I'm testing my samples hopefully this week.
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  #23  
Old 02-26-2013, 03:54 PM
gauchosilvertone  is offline
 
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Re: Replacing Edge with Floyd - can this get the bass back?


I must disagree on that point, at least in regard to the 550. I used the Floyd Upgrades big brass block on my 550. Improved? Yes. But, to borrow the term from your V7/V8 article, it was definitely like polishing a turd. I know that's sacrilege but it's the truth. Now I do wish I still had the block to try in the 520.
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  #24  
Old 02-26-2013, 05:55 PM
LonePhantom  is offline
 
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Re: Replacing Edge with Floyd - can this get the bass back?


I do have to agree that the metal used on the Ibanez trems is lacking, tonally speaking. I mustn't have read your post properly, but yes I think a proper steel constructed bridge sounds better than the pot metal used on the Ibanez bridges. The brass, and I'd imagine the titanium blocks I'm about to try out even more so, make the Ibanez bridges sound a little better.
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  #25  
Old 02-26-2013, 06:15 PM
gauchosilvertone  is offline
 
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Re: Replacing Edge with Floyd - can this get the bass back?


The difference was so apparent between the OE and OFR, the whole guitar is just so much more physically resonant, I literally feel it in how much the whole body vibrates. I do miss the feel of the Edge though! And I dislike how deep in the rout the OFR sits- the bar runs into the volume knob sometimes.
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  #26  
Old 02-26-2013, 06:39 PM
LonePhantom  is offline
 
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Re: Replacing Edge with Floyd - can this get the bass back?


the Titanium block in my vintage style strat bridge is amazing, so I'm really looking forward to seeing what a Ti block does in an Edge. If it gets rid of all the problems I have with the Edge trems then I'd be stoked.

Interestingly, I have a feeling the old 86-87 Edge I retro-fitted into my old RG 470 sounds better than the Edge in my 2007 RG550 re-issue. It really wouldn't surprise me if the metals used in older ones sounds far better.
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  #27  
Old 02-26-2013, 06:42 PM
gauchosilvertone  is offline
 
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Re: Replacing Edge with Floyd - can this get the bass back?


I'd agree with that in theory, but having used the original 1990 edge in my old 550 (and having replaced it with the FU brass block), I can say at least between '90 and '97 the block was no different.

I'm sure you'll let us know about the titanium.
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  #28  
Old 02-26-2013, 09:47 PM
kfssdude  is offline
 
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Re: Replacing Edge with Floyd - can this get the bass back?


Have you tried upgrading your Edge's tone block? The stock Edge tone blocks are crap pot metal. The stock OFR blocks are brass. Small, but still brass. It really does make a big difference to my ears. I have upgraded all of my blocks.

I have an RG420 - 3-pc mahogany body with an Edge 3 POS. But that Edge 3 POS has the same route as an OFR so I did in fact try swapping. And you're right - the OFR made the guitar sound much deeper & fuller. I then got an oversized solid brass block for the Edge 3 (from FU) and put it back in. Wow what a difference. Now the Edge 3 sounds even better than the OFR and the guitar in general sounds warm, rich and full. So while I kinda hate the E3, I have kept it on there because it sounds SO good with that massive brass block.

They aren't that expensive... In the $50-80 range depending on what trem and what kind of block you want. Might be worth a shot before you give up on Edges & re-routing your Iby's for OFR's.

**edit** I don't know why but I missed that others had already mentioned this. Sorry for the redundancy. Apparently I'm blind**
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  #29  
Old 02-26-2013, 10:49 PM
moonlight  is offline
 
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Re: Replacing Edge with Floyd - can this get the bass back?


I wonder if maybe there is a point where obsessing with tone becomes some sort of a obsessive compulsive disorder.
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  #30  
Old 02-27-2013, 11:22 AM
gauchosilvertone  is offline
 
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Re: Replacing Edge with Floyd - can this get the bass back?


I can stop any time...
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