String Tension on Floating Bridges

[theapprentice]

Hello all, I have been tinkering with my two Ibanez RG guitars, a 350EX and a 2550E, and noticed that with the same string gauge, the 350 seemed to have lower string tension compared to the 2550 though strung with the exact same string brand and gauge (D'Addario 9's) Does this have anything to do with spring length or bridge mass?

The 350EX is equipped with an Edge III trem, while the 2550E uses an Edge Pro. I don't use the trems too much, but keep them locked so they don't go out of tune easily thanks to the design. They seem to have the same mass (I checked them by hand once, they seemed to be as heavy as each other) but I'm not so sure about the springs.

What do you think guys? Would changing the springs do anything? Is there any other way to change tension other than going a gauge up?

[Timbaline]

Adding springs will always add tension, even if you continue to use the same string gauge. To add tension you can also arrange your springs like /|\ instead of having them like |||.

[Random Hero]

So ||| lessens tension? Interesting. My Suhr came stock /|\ and I've left it as it feels great. I've never had a guitar set like that before but can't say I've noticed a discernible difference?

[bakerman]

Bridge/spring setup doesn't affect the actual tension of a string, but a bridge that moves more when some force is applied (like when using fewer springs) requires more effort to bend to a target pitch. You could determine if one bridge is moving more by seeing how far a string like the low E drops when you do a particular bend on a higher string.

Angling any springs will hold the bridge in place less firmly than with the same number straight, but the difference is extremely small and probably not worth worrying about. Angling 2 of 3 is pretty much like keeping them straight but swapping one for another that's 95% as strong.

[Yousef]

On both my RGs I have .10s at E flat tuning and my springs are |||. No issues with return to pitch.

[moonlight]

Are the sustain blocks the same? If you have a longer block it gets more leverage and thus less spring tension to counter the string pull.

[theapprentice]

Ok thanks for the reply guys, yes I have angled the outer springs on the 350EX, but not on the 2550E where the tension is right on. The 350EX's strings did get a bit stiffer but this still doesn't seem to be enough to match the tension of the 2550E, and I am suspecting this might be due to spring size, although I haven't measured them yet.

Is there anything else that can be done to add some more tension to the 350EX other than changing gauges? I'm trying to keep things uniform here lol Thanks in advance

[mike570]

I noticed the same thing kind of. My Edge 3 equipped guitars seem to have more "slink" than an MIJ with and Edge or Edge Pro. I actually like the *give* I get on an Edge 3 when bending strings. I don't think its intentional in the design but it works for me. Maybe it's cheaper material in the springs or just the overall design and construction. I'm not sure. IMO each trem has their pros and cons.

[moonlight]

The string tension for a specific string set at given pitch is a constant. The only variable is the geometry of bridge.

[theapprentice]

Sorry guys, this has been really bugging me since I got the 2550E, and the problem is that I sort of "get spoiled" with playing a really "soft" guitar in the 350EX and when switching to the 2550E, I tend to need a little warm-up first due to the slightly higher tension on the guitar. I see this as a potential problem when playing in gigs: if the 350EX were my main guitar, and if I were to switch to the backup 2550E I wouldn't have enough time to get comfy with the guitar before playing the next songs, for example.

Making the 2550E the main guitar and the 350EX as backup would improve things a bit, but c'mon! The 350EX's been my workhorse since it's been with me longer than the 2550E, and I wouldn't really want to wear out a practically mint Prestige by playing it too much, at least not yet About the tension issues, excess tension compensation with my hands from playing stiffer strings in the 2550E would then be carried over to the softer strings of the 350EX, and I'm pretty sure that would ruin my technique on the particular night with excessive picking strength making the strings bounce around uncontrollably, not to mention I'd wear out frets faster on the 350EX due to excessive fretting hand strength.

Not that I'm a retard who couldn't adopt quickly to changes or anything, but such issues being dealt with beforehand would really make me focus less on my technique and more on the songs right?

[moonlight]

When you say you keep you trem locked do you mean no pull up or dives or blocked so you can only dive. If it is totally locked it's hard for me to see how the same type of strings would feel much different on the two guitars. If they are blocked so you can still dive the difference is in the springs and sustain block. To soften it up get a longer sustain block if available and us less spring tension. I have an RG520 that has a 43mm sustain block. I can't install the cover because it sticks up to far but I don't care about that, I like how it plays.

[bakerman]

I think he meant he keeps the nut locked and doesn't have any tuning problems as a result.

Switching to a longer sustain block has the same effect as adding a spring (or switching to ones with a higher spring constant) so I'd suggest the simplest of those modifications first--add a spring. The result is the same; the bridge moves less upon bending and it takes less force to reach the target note.

[theapprentice]

@moonlight: I find it weird actually, it would be common sense to think that two guitars with practically the same bridge designs with the same scale lengths and using the same strings gauges would have the same string tension, but the two guitars are completely, and I really mean completely different in terms of tension.They're both floaters BTW. Thank you for taking the time trying to figure out the quirks.

@bakerman: lol unfortunately the 350EX didn't come with an extra spring and the manual, unlike other models, but I'll buy springs and try your suggestion out, thanks

[bakerman]

With nearly identical sets of strings and the same scale length & tuning the tension will be almost exactly the same. The guitar itself can't influence tension at pitch without altering its scale length. It pretty much has to be one of the following:

-strings not really close to identical

-the effect of the bridges moving different amounts

-lower/higher frets

-different action heights

-rougher/smoother frets

-different neck shape that gives you a different grip on the string

-different body/strap button orientation that changes your leverage somehow

[moonlight]

Something else you might try is getting some of those high tension springs. They are copper colored. They might change the dynamics of the spring tension enough to stiffen up that 350. I used to get them from a guy on e bay but he is out of them now.