Tremolo Angle

waylay00 · #1 01-18-2007, 11:55 PM

When attempting to setup one of my old RG550 that I just recently started playing, I noticed that the trem angle was off. So, I go to adjust it, but the tremolo claw was already as far in as it would go. I'm using three 46mm springs in an arrow formation, yet the trem angle is still off by a few degress. What perplexes me is that my trem angle on my other RG550 is fine, and it uses the same setup, in the three spring arrow formation. I even tried using the springs from my "good" RG550 to see if maybe the other springs were weak. No change whatsoever.

What other factor could cause the trem angle to be off? The string gauges on both guitars are the same. Basically, the guitars use the EXACT same parts...which is what confuses me even more.

Help is appreciated.

stewmunny · #2 01-19-2007, 03:43 PM

can you post some pics of the angle of the trem and the claw in the cavity as well.

Satchriossi · #3 01-20-2007, 05:16 PM

Could the spring rates of the troublesome springs be different to the ones in the guitar that balances properly? Perhaps from fatigue due to age and use, or perhaps they aren't stock springs and aren't strong enough? I have similar issues with my sabre in that with 3 springs it will never balance a set of guage 9 strings - even if i leave the low B slack!! It has five springs in now but i would like to source more springs and experiment to see if it can be balanced with 3 springs.

Worth noting; of the five springs in my S7420, three have slightly larger diameter coils (all are the same length) and feel easier to stretch out than the two smaller coiled springs. The smaller ones are different colours which leads me to believe they are not stock springs, rather, they have been added by a previous owner to increase strength. Perhaps the originals lost strength after a while? I don't know enough about the physics of springs to be sure. That guitar is 8 years old.

waylay00 · #4 01-21-2007, 02:14 AM

Well, I think I discovered the problem. One of my trem stud anchors was leaning forward in the body, causing one of the trem stud posts to lean forward, thus causing the whole tremolo to lean forward..

It appears to be loose, for I can wiggle it around (keep in mind I'm talking about the silver thing actually inside the body, not the actual post itself). However, I am unable to pull it out to reseat it with some glue.

What is the best way to remove a trem stud anchor from the body?

waylay00 · #5 01-21-2007, 02:56 AM

All right, I got the tremolo anchor out, but the hole is considerably oblong. How should I go about making it "smaller" per se, so that the anchor won't move when I put it back in?

clk102293 · #6 01-21-2007, 07:48 AM

This is actually a very common issue. Unless you are competent in your woodworking abilities, I would take it to a guitar repair center. The hole will have to be drilled out and maple inserts (or other hardwood) installed. Then new holes will be drilled into the maple for the stud inserts. This should set you back about $100 USD or so. Once the work is done and done properly, you shouldn't have another issue the trem studs shifting.

waylay00 · #7 01-21-2007, 02:16 PM

Ahh! This guitar has been a hell child for me to resurrect. I've wasted $50 on one setup that did nothing at all, $70 on a fret level crown that was mediocre at best, a total refret for $175, and now this...

I did get the guitar for $150, so I can't really complain.

Thanks though, I do appreciate the help.

rrhea · #8 01-21-2007, 03:15 PM

Where did you take it for all the work, waylay? Have you tried Rick yet? He can plug the stud holes and redrill them for you for sure. That should fix your problem.

RR

waylay00 · #9 01-21-2007, 03:21 PM

I took it to a guy at Yarbrough's (this was a while back though, before you told me about Rick). He was very nice, but I don't think he was that competent. My teacher also mentioned Rick (and seemed to speak very highly of him), but I have not yet tried him. He'll definitely be the one I go to next though.

What are his prices generally like? Say if I had some wiring that needed to be done for some pickups, how much would that cost? I'm all right at installing/soldering them myself, but I can't ever seem to get the wiring job as neat as I'd like.

jb4674 · #10 01-21-2007, 03:32 PM

Waylay,

Try doing this to see if it will help, you will not damage your guitar at all and it won't cost you more than 20 bucks. Take the anchor with you to Home Depot, Buy a little container of Elmers wood filler to fill up the hole, it's only like 3 bucks. Also get a small container of contractor strength glue. Lastly, while you're there, take the anchor to the area where they sell drill bits and find one that would drill out that size hole. The bit shouldn't cost you that much (hopefully you have a drill at home).

Prior to adding the filler to the hole, insert the bit into the hole to measure how deep it should go up until the bit touches wood. Keep an eye on the other anchor to make sure the one you're going to fix seats at the same level as the other one. Once you have measured how deep the bit should go, try to put a mark on the bit (with tape, highlight it, scratch it, etc) to use it as a guide.

Next, clean up the hole really well by blowing on it to get any wood particles out of it.

Puncture the wood filler container with a screw to give you a nice controlled flow. Commence to pour it in the hole. As the wood filler dries (almost to the point that it looks dry), try to compress the filler in as much as you can by pushing the anchor in nice and gently to thicken it up a bit more(although this stuff is quite thick already) but don't put the anchor in, this is just to compress the substance in the hole and clean up the bottom of the anchor when you're done with a damp paper towel. Think of it as a dentist filling in a cavity (adding more and compressing the filling inside the tooth) and add in a little more filler if it needs it. When you have filled up the hole, let it sit for a couple of days to make sure it is nice and dry.

When you're ready to drill the hole, make sure you sit it at the right distance. Measure it by placing the tremolo back on the guitar and use the other screw as a guide. Sit the knife edge ot the side where the screw works normally and site the other knife edge on the bad side as if the bad screw were there. Grab a pen and put a point on the bad side to see where it would be set and centered. Take the trem out and grab the drill along with the bit you marked and drill up the hole down to the mark you placed. Do this by taking your time and don't hurry it up.

Once the hole is drilled up, blow the excess stuff out of the hole, put some of that contractor's glue on the anchor to make sure its extra secured and then "push it real good", lol. Once the anchor is in, let it sit for a couple of days again.

When the whole thing is done, put the trem back, string it up, and it shouldn't give you anymore problems.

Jimmy

rrhea · #11 01-21-2007, 03:45 PM

Rick's prices are a tad more, but pretty comparable to most other repairmen here. I've never had him do wiring, so I am not sure about his fee for that. Fret levels are something like $100 (add $40 or $50 if the nut needs to be replaced, which usually is not needed for a leveling) and something like $200 for a refret plus $50 for nut replacement on non-locking trem or fixed-bridge guitars.

That's usually the kind of work I use Rick for. The stuff I can't or don't do myself. He is extremely detailed and does fret work probably about as good as it can be possibly done.

He just finished an acoustic guitar that he hand built himself (literally everything, except hardware) and it's simply the best sounding/playing acoustic I've ever had the pleasure of holding in my hands. Clear, piano-like bass, super low action and loud as he11. It will blow your mind.

They guy is really talented.

Tell him I referred you. He's got my Malmsteen Strat right now doing a fret-level on her. Can't wait to get it back.

Ryan

Rich · #12 01-21-2007, 03:51 PM

Too much overkill. Pull the inserts, flow super glue on the oblong side, hit it with accellerator, put the insert back in, done. The super glue is harder than the basswood or any other wood you'd use to do any overcomplicated repair with. Quick, easy, and effective.

rrhea · #13 01-21-2007, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich

Too much overkill. Pull the inserts, flow super glue on the oblong side, hit it with accellerator, put the insert back in, done. The super glue is harder than the basswood or any other wood you'd use to do any overcomplicated repair with. Quick, easy, and effective.

Cool. That's the kind of simple, clever stuff that I'm tying to muster up the courage to do on my own. Though, I've not had the need to fix an insert yet, I do have several guitars that need fret levels. I just need to go and buy a cheap guitar and practice.

RR

Rich · #14 01-21-2007, 04:04 PM

Many times simple is the best solution. "Luthiers" often overly complicate things either because that's the way they were trained or, to justify charging more money for what could be a much simpler repair. Anything you do is going to keep pushing into the basswood anyway and possibly need to be redone again in 5-10 years, doesn't matter if it's ebony or superglue, so why complicate?