Tuning after BENDS (not whammy pull-ups)

[jeffrg270]

Well, I've now put in the new locking posts...

and, truthfully, I haven't noticed a huge difference between when I had the factory installed non-lockers with chapstick on them. It's not horrible, but I was hoping it would be a little better....at the moment, I'm satisfied because the tuning diff after whammy pull-ups is only there if you're *really* listening for it...

But there's another problem that I was hoping would be solved by the lockers, and it hasn't been: the tuning instability from BENDS. My guitar actually recovers better from whammy action than from bending. When I bend the high E string, the unwound strings go flat while the wound strings go quite noticably sharp -- especially the low E...

these strings are all well stretched, and if I do a little dive with the whammy bar, the proper tuning is brought back...but I don't feel like I should have to do this.

Any help would be great, because it's pretty frustrating. I know Vai uses backstops in his guitar, but does that mean guitars without backstops will have the problem I'm describing?

[nuno]

Originally Posted by jeffrg270

...I haven't noticed a huge difference...

locking posts alone don't guarantee perfect tuning stability, they just collaborate toward it. if you have a TRS w/locking posts you can forget about tuning stability.

Originally Posted by jeffrg270

...Vai uses backstops in his guitar, but does that mean guitars without backstops will have the problem I'm describing?

if you're talking about Evo, maybe yes, but just because the white lady is very old and beaten to the bone. take a look to the Evo section on vai.com.
but i think Vai uses the Backstop also to prevent the strings going out of tuning in case of string break.


1 question: what trem have you got?

.

[davester1234]

If your talking about the guitar going out of pitch while your bending *not after you've bended* then its a standard problem with these guitars, and all guitars with floating bridges.

That specifically why steve has the backstop installed. The bends cause the bridge to waiver, and as a result, other notes change pitch.

If you mean the guitar is going out of tune after you've finished the bend, then go to ibanezrules.com, and go to their tech section. Work through all the possibilities.

[jeffrg270]

Sorry I didn't clarify earlier. It's a 2003 Jem with an edge pro trem, that now has locking posts. Ibanezrules is great, but the tuning stability issues are mainly dealing with post-whammy stability.

The instability here is due to the bending. More specifically, AFTER the bend is over, the guitar is out of tune. ie. after bending up the high E, high strings are really flat, low strings are really sharp.

[jeffrg270]

what I meant was, the tuning issues that I've read about on ibanezrules are dealing with post whammy bar (pull-up, dive) stability, but the tuning problems that my guitar is having is to do with bending individual strings.

any ideas to solve this problem would be great! thanks,
Jeff.

[jemsite]

did you buy this axe from Rich? i'm assuming you did not but followed the tuning guides on jemsite & ibzrules. did you check the knife edges on the trem baseplate to ensure they are not too thick and fit nicely in the stud?

this type of finding is somewhat normal, regardless, because sometimes the "neutral" point is not 100% w/ bending but usually is 100% with trem use. often it's not noticable however... glen

[jeffrg270]

No, I didn't buy this axe from rich (perhaps I should have) but I have looked at his tuning guide and the one here. I've inspected the knives, and to the best of my knowledge (granted, I'm no expert) they look pretty good.

It actually wouldn't bother me as much if the neutral point after a bend was a tad sharp, or a tad flat. the reason is noticable is that some strings go flat (the ones I bent) while the others go sharp, so you get this big differential between the high and low strings. especially noticable when hitting a chord!

[jemsite]

i'm at a loss to explain how after bending the notes the low E (wound strings) would go sharp, with other strings going flat because when you bend you are flattening the bridge (all 6 strings) and all should return flat (or sharp for discussion sake) in unison.

the string length is fixed from nut to saddle and as a result all should move together... except for an overt glitch.

i would double check the entire setup starting with the float point (get the trem in a neutral position at float - see jemsite tech section pics) then inspect for an obstruction, loose saddle, loose nut, etc while using the trem on a workbench... glen

[jeffrg270]

Well, I think what's happening is that when I bend a string, it doesn't quite return all the way, (so it's flat), and to compensate, other strings are sharp

[jemsite]

either way, that really should *not* happen if things are working properly. i would investigate as this should be readily fixable... glen

[jeffrg270]

Hey Glen,

I fixed the problem. I feel kinda stupid because I think it was something described in rich's tuning guide. I swear I checked it through before, but I must have missed something last time. It was a good idea to check it again.

In any event, I apologize for starting this thread when I really should have explored all the options first, and I appreciate your correspondence. I hope I didn't wasted too much of your time!

-J

[jemsite]

good news. what was the fix? i'm sure others will be interested ...glen

[jeffrg270]

Keep in mind, this is a really new guitar (got it in september)...

the nut wasn't fastened on tight. I thought it was, since I had grabbed it with my fingers, and it didn't wiggle around....but this time, in my infinite wisdom, I decided to try the bolts at the back of the neck, and they were really loose. It just seems very lazy to not have that tightened from the factory, so I didn't really expect it. Suffice to say, after those are tight, with the locking posts, tuning's pretty good.

I feel pretty stupid for going this long without checking those bolts assuming that the nut was tight because I couldn't manually wiggle it around. my bad.

-J

[davester1234]

i've noticed alot of ibanez axes come from the factory with those nuts just barely tightened...its happened to me and a few of my friends.

Of course, you don't want to OVER tighten, but nice and snug should do the job.

Good stuff.

[frankfalbo]

Just an FYI, I don't think the nuts come barely tightened from the factory. The same thing is true for tuner nuts. It's not an Ibanez thing, by the way, its everybody. When the guitars are built, they are brand new, and the nuts are all tight. Then the wood dries out a little, and shrinks enough that the nuts are a little looser. I've had guitars that were tight new, and they didn't become loose until winter when it was drier. Then you could loosen the tuner nuts with your fingers.