Change the JS series? - make it a "true" signature model...

[jay ratkowski]

I must first admit, I really love the JS body style... I think the 22 fret design works real well... even the old style neck joint isn't bad... the radius however, bothers me.

Now, if it just didn't work for me, that'd be fine. *However, it doesn't work for Joe. *Check out the numerous interviews where he discusses the setup of his guitars. *he has to alter the bridge to make the radius work... essenitally negating the purpose of the rounder radius. *That just seems silly to me, that you guys build these cool guitars with his name on him, but he has to have his tech change them so he can play the things.

Either build them with a slightly flatter radius... or set them up somewhat like Joe does... so us regular folk can enjoy low action and string bends. *It's really quite bothersome how easily notes fret out when you get the action below 4mm on the JS necks...

I'm sure people will just go on about how it would be time consuming and expensive to make the JS guitars play "properly"... but take the Jem for example, I think it's a GREAT statement for you guys, when Steve Vai says he can go into any store and pick a JEM up off the wall and it'll play just how he likes it... and it's true. *Satch can go into a store, have a crew of techs spend like three hours practically rebuilding the guitar before he'll play it and it'll be the way he likes it. *That's too bad.

[Rich]

The JS is exactly the way Joe specifies. Every single change you're talking about is directly related to the fact his guitars are fully multi-radiused. Joe wants the 9 1/2" radius at the nut and (about) a 12" radius at the 22nd. This is acomplished by flatening the radius as you move up the neck, then making the frets even a flatter radius. All post 98' 1000's have the fretboard already digitized to match the radius of Joe's. It just doesn't have the finish fretwork. Gary Brower can perform this (and re-radius the bridge to the new radius) for $175 and give you the guitar with action exactly like Joe's.

I admit it would be nice if Ibanez did the finish fretwork, but it would obviously add some dinero to the bottom line. Probably $1750 list or more, although I think people would pay the diference for the complete job. Until then, you can always send it to Brawer.

[RSVampire]

is it brower or brawer? and who is he? can any tech-y do this kind of job?

[Rich]

http://www.dnai.com:80/~brawer/

[iain]

FYI, it's about 250-275 for Brawer to work a pre '98 JS.

Mine is a'94 (non-multiradiused) and still has great action, maybe yours just needs a good setup?

[jem7vwh]

wow, I never knew that the store models weren't the same. *I agree that they should be exactly as played by Joe. * I'd sure be pissed if I was a Satch freak and bought a JS thinking I was getting Joe's guitar and then found out I'd have to mod it in a bunch of ways to be able to have the action he has.

[Josh Blagg]

For those of you who are blowing off the fretwork as not a big deal, what a shame. *This is the most important part. *I have a 57 reissue strat with a supercurved radius (7.25") and the ONLY way to get low action is to reradius and level the frets for clean string bends. *The neck shape is the same as Joe's...big deal...he has incredibly low action (2/64ths all the way up the neck), and it would be impossible to do this on a stock JS. *I agree with the poster.

However, changing the fretboard radius isn't the answer. *Joe says he likes the vintage feel, which is a rounder fretboard radius, and I certainly like the way it feels as well. *I am not saying I like it better than an almost flat fretboard, but I like both. *Originally, the rounder radius was designed to help with jazz chording.

[Rich]

Nobody's 'blowing off' the fretwork, but how much do you want to pay for the guitar?!?! If you really want board and fretwork done like Joes, the option is available for you to have it done. If Ibanez did it you'd probably have to pay $500 or more for the guitar and obviously they don't think they would sell at that price. What's the big deal? You want it done, go get it done!

[Josh Blagg]

I would rather see them charge $500 more for it. *A kid buys the guitar, and "Hey, I can't even bend up a whole step without the string fretting out." *I've seen more complaints like this than anything. *Of course you can have the work done after you buy the guitar, but most people aim their budget toward the price of the guitar, not knowing they will have to pay for shipping both ways and and a couple hundred bucks for Brawer to set it up. *I've always said that if I ever got a signature model, the first thing I would tell the guitar company is that "the playability is the most important factor of the guitar." *

Frets rarely get the attention they need from the factory from a lot of guitar companies, and in turn, most players just "accept" the way that most guitars come out of the box. *I'm not saying Ibanez is a problem company, because I am not an Ibanez expert, but I have played JS guitars and was disappointed. *I personally don't think the JS series is all that expensive, and making them as playable as Joe's personal guitars would go a long way in people buying more of them and having more respect for them. *Regardless of how good it looks, how good it sounds, or how close the physical dimensions are to Joe's specs, what good does it do anyone if it doesn't play worth a dollar?

But Rich, I don't see how you can say it isn't a big deal. *What if they just decided not to include frets with the guitar at all, and you just accepted that after you bought it, you would have to pay to have them installed, leveled, and radiused? *I think people would rather they get it right from the start. *I am sure Joe could foresee the problem with using a round radius and wanting to bend strings like crazy -- it's a nightmare from a setup perspective. *So when the average Joe Blow goes to the guitar store and picks up the JS, he either puts it right back down because it doesn't play well, or he buys it and some time later is pissed because someone tells him no matter how well he sets it up, he will never be able to do a lot of the Satriani licks until he pays for some nifty fretwork.


(Edited by Josh Blagg at 6:07 pm on Mar. 2, 2001)

[jemsite]

While we rip on petrucci, this is where EB/MM is progressing. Offering the customer the choice for the neck upgrade from the factory would be a workable solution to satisfy all parties... glen

[Josh Blagg]

Yeah, I think that would be a great solution.

[Rich]

You can do any Satch licks you want on them right out of the box, Matt King for example! And does anybody have any idea of the dificulty in keeping a guitar playable with action at 2/64ths?!?! Joe has a tech to work on his guitars EVERY DAY. How many complaints do you think there would be because a neck DOES move daily and with it the action! Are you ready to take your daily trip down to the tech before you can play?!?1 Get for real!! Another factor is while Joe can play with action that low because of his technique, the rest of us would get nothing but buzz!! That would make for lots of happy customers wouldn't it!! Just like the JS!

OK, lets change it up now, should we expect to buy a 7VWH and get the 555 neck with the zig zag fretwork so it'll be just like Stevies??!? NO! But if you want to make those modifications it's available for some tech to do it for you.

[Josh Blagg]

A friend of mine has a 1979 Fender Stratocaster with 2/64ths action all the way up the neck. *The action is always the same, and it never buzzes, and never frets out, regardless of who is playing it.

Here is how I look at it. *If there wasn't some type of recurring problem with the JS series, then there wouldn't be so many complaints about it. *I accept the fact that some can be better than others for playability, but I am telling you, the ones I have played all fretted out on string bends over a whole step.

[Rich]

1979, hmmm, ahhh, 22 years old, yup, I'd say his neck is about as cured as it's going to get! And I'm sure it's had extensive work done to achieve that action. Sorry but Ibanez just doesn't have any 22 year old wood to build necks from.

There aren't any recurring problem with a JS neck, and I sure don't see 'so many complaints' about them. In fact I RARELY see a complaint, and when I do it's usually because of how it was setup.

The action on a JS should be set to just over 1/16th trebble side and 3/32 bass side (which is just slightly higher than a Jem setup which has a 17" radius!). Any lower and you won't get the bends. In fact the way I set action on a JS is with a 3 step bend, I take it as low as it will go and still get a clean 3 step bend. Anything lower and you can EXPECT it to fret out. If you want it lower than that then some multi radiusing will have to be done to the frets.

Now let me get this straight, you'd pay $500 more for the guitar from Ibanez but you won't pay $250 to Brawer to have it done?? I think Kev still has 2 bridges left for sale, hurry before they're gone.

[Josh Blagg]

Personally I wouldn't pay anything because I don't like the JS line. *But how many people that go into a guitar store and pick up a JS model do you think know about the Gary Brawer re-radiusing trick? *The reason this entire thread was started was to point out the shortcomings of the JS models compared to Joe's actual guitars. *And I have seen a lot of complaints about the JS, whether it be here, or on another WWW board, or in a guitar store.

There are some good ones, some bad ones, and some that are poorly setup. *Of all the ones I have played, I experienced notes that fretted out. *Now I might only have a chance to pick up three to five of these in a lifetime and play them, and they might all have a bad setup or be a bad representation of the actual line, but when they have worse fretting problems than my 57 reissue stratocaster, then I start to wonder.

I think it would only be fair to AT LEAST get a correctly radiused bridge from the factory. *It doesn't make since the way the neck radius and saddle arc radius are off. *Of course, you will you can "Do it yourself," but is this something you should really have to do yourself?

This guitar's setup just doesn't make any sense to me, kinda like drinking Dr. Pepper with strawberry pancakes.

And the 79 strat has never had any fretwork whatsoever.