DoubleEdge again.. this time Synthaccess

[LennyNero]

Hi there,

I wonder, Ibanez is having the DoubleEdge System (not sold seperatly... sadly). They make GK-Ready (Synth-Ready) guitars. But why do they use the magnetic pups for that?

If you ever had the chance to compare the tracking of a Godin-Guitar (they are working with piezos for synth-access too) you'll find out their tracking is much better.

So, please Ibanez.. next time use your own system (okay, it's L.R.Baggs if I recall that one right).

Lenny

P.S.: and start to sell the double edge seperatly, or I'll get a Godin!

[Kevan]

Originally Posted by LennyNero

I wonder, Ibanez is having the DoubleEdge System (not sold seperatly... sadly). They make GK-Ready (Synth-Ready) guitars. But why do they use the magnetic pups for that?

Because, without magnetic pickups, you'd only have the GK pickup.

Originally Posted by LennyNero

If you ever had the chance to compare the tracking of a Godin-Guitar (they are working with piezos for synth-access too) you'll find out their tracking is much better.

Since both companies (Godin and Ibanez) are using L.R.Baggs for their piezo systems, tracking should be identical on both guitars when it comes to piezos.

When it comes to synth pickups, what Godin put in their guitars is from a company called RMC. These folks mess around with piezo elements and preamps and turn them into synth-tracking elements. NOTE: If I remember correctly, you CAN NOT use the MIDI and the piezo at the same time on the Godin models (correct me if I'm wrong).

Contact RMC thru their website:
http://www.rmcpickup.com/
They might be able to modify a DE system for you.
($$$ cha-ching $$$)

Originally Posted by LennyNero

So, please Ibanez.. next time use your own system (okay, it's L.R.Baggs if I recall that one right).

Here's the answer to your own question.
You need to contact RMC and/or L.R.Baggs. They're very cool folks and would love an email from you.
BTW- the Double Edge is the only double-locking piezo-equipped trem available. It *is* Ibanez's own system. :-) I've not seen a DE sytem on any other brand of guitar.

Originally Posted by LennyNero

P.S.: and start to sell the double edge seperatly, or I'll get a Godin!

You're not thinking of putting a DE system in another guitar, are you? This is a VERY complicated and delicate process (that also involves a lot of routing and drilling). I recommend finding a DE-equipped guitar and finishing it to your liking.
Or get a Godin. :-)

[LennyNero]

Hi Kevan,

thanx for the answers (actually you gave some answers I already knew... like the RMC-stuff... they are selling the same Pup as is used on the Godin LGX SA as well as the onboardpreamp used in that guitar ... okay, just found out it's a Baggs system on the LGX and RMC is making those for the Jazz SA... nevertheless... the systems work quite the same way, I think).

Couldn't be that difficult for a giftet craftsman (right word?) to use that preamp with the doubleedge (well, yes, you'll need some routing for that).

Concerning the use of Piezo (acoustic) and MIDI sounds at the same time... last time I played an LGX was on the music-fair here in Frankfurt/Germany and I was convinced I did use all three sounds (magnetic, acoustic and MIDI). Looked through harmonycentral reviews... nobody said you couls uae all three sounds at once. But nobody stated otherwise.
Anyone here playing one? Someone got to know!

Concerning tracking... I meant that for MIDI, didn't expect dropouts on the acoustic sounds (since both systems work mechanical).

That leaves me still with the question why Ibanez isn't using the DE-system for Synth-Access. If both (Godin and Ibanez) work together with LRBaggs... it's just one more step (okay, the Godin guitars have more "body" to host all the preamp stuff.. but there's got to be a way!

I wonder how much routing you'll need (okay, a place for the battery, a place for the electronics (acoustic preamp, MIDI)) but to be honest: yes, I'd do it (or let do it )

Bye,
Lenny

[Scott of Actual Time]

Originally Posted by LennyNero

(... like the RMC-stuff... they are selling the same Pup as is used on the Godin LGX SA as well as the onboardpreamp used in that guitar ... okay, just found out it's a Baggs system on the LGX and RMC is making those for the Jazz SA... nevertheless... the systems work quite the same way, I think).

Couldn't be that difficult for a giftet craftsman (right word?) to use that preamp with the doubleedge (well, yes, you'll need some routing for that).

i've been looking into this recently. LR Baggs doesn't make anything with MIDI implimentation, so they can't help. RMC makes the Poly-Drive preamps, which have piezo and 13 pin Roland guitar synth output, but RMC aparently has a very low technical opinion of the Baggs pickups.

RMC's website hasn't been updated in over a year, but they told me this in e-mail: "the individual transducer outputs of the L.R.Baggs X-bridge, the L.R.baggs Hex pickups, as well as the Shadow and Graph Tech piezo saddles have a rather weak output and compressed dynamics, which is not a good combination for a sensor in this application. As a result, they tend to produce glitching in the MIDI output and excessive string noise artifacts in VG-8/88 and acoustic modeling applications. For real good MIDI tracking and true acoustic performance like what you get with guitars like the Godin MultiAcs and Brian Moore iGuitars, be sure to use the original RMC Pow'r Bridge pickup with our Poly-Drive preamp. I know you'll be much happier with your decision."

i'm interested in GR synth use, not the VG which doesn't track in the traditional way [some modeling design that 'adds effects to the sound of your string']. i asked if there was a technical solution to this output and dynamics problem, and they said: "Feel free to experiment with other brands. You know where to find us when you're done with your research."

i think that translates as 'get bent,' so if the answer isn't no, they aren't interested in helping you figure it out. that's too bad, because like you i think the 2027 is an ideal guitar for an internal guitar synth mod like the Moore guitars.

[JEAPSON]

Well as far as I remember you can use piezo AND MIDI at the same time when playing. You have a switch on GODIN guitars especially devoted to that (piezo only, piezo with MIDI, MIDI only). The point is that the mix your hear between piezo / MIDI when both are selected comes from the MIDI input. I don't remember if can can plug in the piezo output and the MIDI outpout and hear them both from different source but I see no reason against that

[Drew]

Originally Posted by RMC

the individual transducer outputs of the L.R.Baggs X-bridge, the L.R.baggs Hex pickups, as well as the Shadow and Graph Tech piezo saddles have a rather weak output and compressed dynamics, which is not a good combination for a sensor in this application. As a result, they tend to produce glitching in the MIDI output and excessive string noise artifacts in VG-8/88 and acoustic modeling applications. For real good MIDI tracking and true acoustic performance like what you get with guitars like the Godin MultiAcs and Brian Moore iGuitars, be sure to use the original RMC Pow'r Bridge pickup with our Poly-Drive preamp. I know you'll be much happier with your decision."

"Feel free to experiment with other brands. You know where to find us when you're done with your research."

Um, good to see they've got their egos in check, huh? Nothing wrong with having a bit of confidence in your work, but that's just arrogant.

(additionally, it should be "for reallY good MIDI tracking..." and the remainder of that sentence flows like dried concrete. Arrogant AND illiterate )

-D

[Scott of Actual Time]

Originally Posted by Drew

Nothing wrong with having a bit of confidence in your work, but that's just arrogant.

that's exactly what i thought -- arrogant and unhelpful. i don't know if the Roland preamp that comes with the GK2 pickup would be any better with the Double Edge, since RMC didn't share any technical info to back up their claims.

[Tsorovan]

Uh, what did you expect? Ask one company about tips in regards to fixing up a competitor's performance/quality? That's pretty much insulting and... yeah, arrogant.

Some people just plain boggle my mind.

[Scott of Actual Time]

Originally Posted by Tsorovan

Uh, what did you expect? Ask one company about tips in regards to fixing up a competitor's performance/quality? That's pretty much insulting and... yeah, arrogant.

read the posts again, dude -- you totally missed that i wanted an RMC product, their Polydrive preamp, and i can't use their saddles because they don't make any that fit a Floyd or Edge trem.

Originally Posted by Tsorovan

Some people just plain boggle my mind.

i know it!