Locking trem studs on the new trems

Drew · #1 05-12-2003, 08:15 PM

I'm suprised that a topic on this hasn't come up yet, but...

I realize that the majority of Ibanez customers don't even know that the studs on the older Edges locked, and the same was true about many Ibanez techs, and that this resulted in a number of broken studs when they tried to adjust the locked ones.

I also realize that this is a brand-new design that you guys just spent a decent amount of money investing in new manufacturing equiptment for.

I also realize that, for the majority of players out there, a trem that goes a quarter step or less off on pullback isn't somethign they'd even notice, assuming they ever pull back on the thing.

But for those of us who do... You already have the tooling equiptment to produce locking trem studs and anchor seats (or whatever the things are called), and they're a direct retrofit for the new Edge pro designs, and they really DO make a difference- this is one of the things that's made my swear by Edge trems ever since i made the switch to Floyd-style designs.

The Jem7vwh I played a week or two back was absolutely amazing in fit and finish, and I loved the feel of the new trem... but the low E was definately going slightly sharp when I pulled it back. I know I'm nitpicking, but I do feel that a $1700 guitar designed for a man known for his over-the-top trem abuse shouldn't go out of tune when you pull back on the bar, however slightly.

I have a feeling that a LOT of people around here would be overjoyed if the locking trem studs were reintroduced for the '04 model year...

-Drew

Rich · #2 05-12-2003, 10:24 PM

Glad you started the thread Drew. The lack of the locking studs will just erode at Ibanez reputation for stable tuning, more so than the problems they had in 99'-01' because this was actually a company decision to degrade the system as opposed to a supplier problem in the past. Unfortunately it's basically Hoshino USA who will see this thread, and it's Japan that made the decision to use the non locking studs. Jim Donahue is still fighting Japan to get the locking studs back in production but has been fighting a loosing battle. It's a crying shame when the bean counters can win over something as important long term to the company as the stability of their trems when used the way they are designed to be.

1/4 step is a HUGE amount of fluctuation. You sure don't have to have perfect pitch or anything close to know that 1/4 step sharp is like raking your fingernails on a chalkboard. So to save $1 in manufaturing costs, they risk attaining a reputation as "Ibanez, doesn't perform any better than any other Floyd", instead of KEEPING their reputation as "Ibanez, the best trem systems on Earth".

Only a bean counter could make this stupid a decision.

Drew · #3 05-15-2003, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich

Unfortunately it's basically Hoshino USA who will see this thread, and it's Japan that made the decision to use the non locking studs. Jim Donahue is still fighting Japan to get the locking studs back in production but has been fighting a loosing battle.

Only a bean counter could make this stupid a decision.

Amen on that last bit. Think maybe a similar post over at Vai.com would have any more of an effect? See if we can get some pressure going from the artists? Vai's always made a point of having the JEM series be as close to what's in his hands when he's playing as possible (barring the lazers and LED's and the sustainers, i guess), and I can't imagine he of all people considering a 1/4 step detuning on pullup.

Even a $500 RG shouldn't be doing this, much less a $1700 signature model.

-D

Rich · #4 05-15-2003, 03:10 PM

I actually wrote that review in a vai.com post in the thread where somebody was asking for a review of the new Edge Pro, so it's already there

This is a double edge sword, if nobody buys the new guitars Ibanez will think the floating trem market is just shrinking further. Supposedly sales from NAMM of floating trem guitars was way off across the board, all manufaturers. If nobody buys them the bean counters will probably just cut back on what's offered instead of fixing the problem that could be adding to the decrease in sales with Ibanez to begin with. I figure, not like I'm a bean counter

RythmicIllusion · #5 05-19-2003, 11:45 PM

Have to agree with both of you guys. When I saw the specs of the new trem here, I was so excited...over a tremolo, mind you! It seems to offer quite a few improvments from the Edge's and Lo-Pros of yor. The "factory fresh" innotation, increased sustain, no need to clip the ball-ends off, extremely low profile...sounds almost like the ideal bridge!

However, when I heard about the move to non-locking studs...that really turned me off. Like Drew said previously, most ibanez players don't know that the studs were changed, or even why locking studs offer improvments, or even why the studs are important at all. Im sure they will notice, however, if their guitar keeps getting thrown out of tune. That's the sort of thing that gives brands a bad repuation.

You know...some young teenage kid gets a $500 Ibanez with the Edge-Pro on it, the same bridge on the Ibanez he REALLY wants that is 3 or 4 times more expensive...and it won't even stay in tune! He tell's all his friends how it won't stay in tune no matter what he does, and they all decide to stay away from Ibanez.

Take a differnt direction. The people that are going to buy that Jem or Prestige RG. Critical guitar players with lots of $$$ to spend on their next model. If they play a guitar with a bridge that won't even hold it's tuning..."see you later Ibanez, im going to ESP/Jackson/BCRich/PRS" ect.

At least in my area, the vibe from the guitarist community pretty much told me that Ibanez was a brand to stay far away from, up until only a year or two ago. Sure, you might be saving money on the production line, but if you get enough people that are going to be buying more guitars in the future, and have a bad experience with Ibanez...they are going to find another brand, and tell there buddies to avoid it at all costs.

So spend the extra $$$ next year, and do EVERYONE (including yourselves) a favor and move back to the locking studs!

Respectfully,

-Andrew Renault
Lowell, MA

CrossingStar · #6 05-20-2003, 10:45 PM

I agree. When I finally realized what the locking posts did, compared to any other post/anchor set-up, I was sold on Ibanez. Before that I was a Floyd Rose user. To me the locking posts are what made the Edge trems better than Floyd Rose trems. And the locking posts became in my mind an example of what made me fall for Ibanez : attention to detail. The little things. I really wish you (Ibanez) would continue to make them available for those of us who want them.

D. Blank
Minneapolis, MN USA

Drew · #7 06-02-2003, 03:02 PM

Since we're signing this one like a petition now, better re-post here...

At the VERY least, if you could move back to a stud anchor with a metal base (so the stud would have something to screw against) and make the locking studs an option, widely available at every Ibanez store... I mean, i'd much rather have them remain stock, but if you didn't have to swap the anchors and could just screw in a new set of studs if it was important to you, it't be much less of a hassle...

Drew Peterson
Adams, MA

freak · #8 06-13-2003, 01:06 PM

These new trems sound not very good (I have only tried the ZR and it seems great

) But isn't the point of a floyd rose to keep in perfect tune when using the bridge??? So why no locking studs

Rich · #9 06-13-2003, 01:55 PM

I just added this to my review last night -

UPDATE - I just finished my first 2003 JEM7VWH and I have to say the trem return on this one is as good as it gets. Why this one is so stable with the non locking studs and the other 2 aren't will take a bit more figuring, and this one has to ship so I can't spend a couple days figuring it out

This VWH does have the problem of not-set saddle inserts that leave the bridge radius whacked. Creative swap-around of 4 saddles brought the radius in "tolerably", but until they make an intonation tool for these EP bridges it's a PAIN IN THE ASS! Much less leaving the radius just short of optimal, which could be corrected with shims, IF there was a tool, because without one it's not getting done. The intonation was still flat also, but still way closer than an 02'.

jay ratkowski · #10 06-16-2003, 04:48 PM

Just to throw another log onto the fire... I must say that I think the Edge trem (w/ locking posts) is a fantastic piece of equipment. I've abused mine to the point of yanking the trem off the guitar, but can't recall times when even harsh use has thrown it out of tune. And it still manages to be a very springy and loose feeling trem, quite user friendly. I think the OFR and it's many clones are pretty mediocre. They usually feel stiff, almost like they don't want you to do more than mild vibrato. And everyone knows about tuning issues. That's what seperates Ibanez from the rest. You may be able to get a similar neck, body, or whatnot out of some other brand, but if you use a trem, there is no substitute. However, now that they are changing their design of their trem and adding tuning problems into the mix, there isn't much to make you want an Ibanez.

darren wilson · #11 06-16-2003, 04:56 PM

Maybe it's Ibanez's way of saying, "This crazy trem thing? It's SOOOO 1980s. Maybe it's time for you to try something else."

**jono** · #12 06-16-2003, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darren wilson

Maybe it's Ibanez's way of saying, "This crazy trem thing? It's SOOOO 1980s. Maybe it's time for you to try something else."

But Ibanez's trouble will come when that something else is a Jackson, or an ESP, or a Tyler, or an Anderson or...

There's something called "Core Demographic" abandoning it is a very brave marketing decision.

The new trems don't seem to stay in tune 100% on the ones I've tried and I'm not buying a new Ibanez without some reassurance that it'll stay in tune like they used to. Maybe I've bought the hype in an Ed Roman style scaremongering campaign, or maybe I really DO notice a difference

The saying "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" still comes to mind

Drew · #13 06-17-2003, 10:33 AM

haha, "Ed Roman scaremongering campaign..."

My impression of the new trem, stability aside, was quite good- it feels "smoother" than the old Edge, somehow, is better looking, and feels better agaisnt your palm. I liked it quite a lot... with the single caveat that, in the purchase price of the guitar, you need to include a new set of trem posts and trem anchors, plus labor to have them installed, t make the thing work at the full extent of its ability.

Rich, I'm very curious to know why that one Jem7V had perfect float... keep us posted.

-D

Rich · #14 06-17-2003, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drew

Rich, I'm very curious to know why that one Jem7V had perfect float... keep us posted.

-D

No more curious than I, but then these customers have been waiting forever and running out of patience. They've pushed the due date back 4 times already.

Now there's a complaint, release a new "full production" model and a major distributor can't get any for 8-9 months.

jay ratkowski · #15 06-20-2003, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drew

Rich, I'm very curious to know why that one Jem7V had perfect float... keep us posted.

-D

No more curious than I, but then these customers have been waiting forever and running out of patience. They've pushed the due date back 4 times already.

Now there's a complaint, release a new "full production" model and a major distributor can't get any for 8-9 months.

You actually get ahold of something from Hoshino that fast? Usually it's 4 months to get a call back and 8-12 months for shipping.

Sorry for OT... I guess we can assume that this guitar was a factory fluke?