Production Totals Please...

Scott Smith · #1 01-11-2001, 11:23 PM

I would like to find out the exact, or close to it, totals for the early Jems/UV's. It's interesting that we know that there are 300+ UV777GR's made but don't have difinitive totals on the other early Jems save the LNG. We know that the GMC's and PMC's are limited but what about the PBK's? Offered for 2 years, less than the GR's and at least as long as the GMC's and less than the UVMC's, but no total. I'm assuming they are as rare as either swirl, possibly rarer than the UVMC. Also, what about the VDY? Or the VSK? Or the UVPWH? Come on Ibanez. We would like to know total numbers. Or at least I would. Maybe others would too...

Kevan · #2 01-12-2001, 12:18 AM

Scott- you're barking up the wrong tree. *You need to talk to Vai about this. *No kidding. *Why?

When an artist signs on to do a signature model with Ibanez, EVERY aspect (yes- every single aspect) of the guitar is approved or denied by the artist. *This includes production totals released to the public.

There are special cases where Steve said, "Give out the totals for....". *Those guitars are:
•JEM777LNG
•JEM10
•JEM90
•JEM2KDNA

I'm not trying to cut Ibanez any slack (I want production totals on the J-Customs more than anyone on the damn planet), I'm just letting you know who's in charge of the production totals.

**jemsite** · #3 01-12-2001, 12:24 AM

Kev, no disrepect to those involved but that really sounds like another excuse.

I can understand Vai (or any artist) not wanting published exact figures (for many reasons) but there is some accountability that needs to be made public, especially as the guitars age. They can start with an approximate production "range"... glen

Kevan · #4 01-12-2001, 12:30 AM

Glen- go ask on the JS Forum how many JS1000's were made in 1999.
Get back to me. *:biggrin:

Ibanez's deal is that the artist controls every aspect of the sig. model guitar ( thus the term "signature model" ). *That's how they do it.

Try that at Fend*r or Gibs*n. *Think they let artist control every aspect? *No chance- you get a Str*t or a LesP*ul...and your choice of paintjob. *Done.

Scott Smith · #5 01-12-2001, 12:34 AM

Kevan,
So your telling me it's Vai's fault I can't get an accurate production total on the PBK??? Really??? Man, that seems odd...

Maybe Ibanez did include that in his contract but what's to be gained by holding out on the production totals? Boosting the aftermarket value??? That's the only reason I can see. If you can enlighten me, please do. This sounds a little selfish to me, if it is the case...

(And I don't doubt you Kevan, just wondering where you got the info)

**jemsite** · #6 01-12-2001, 12:37 AM

Quote:

Quote: from Kevan on 11:30 pm on Jan. 11, 2001
Glen- go ask on the JS Forum how many JS1000's were made in 1999. Get back to me.

Unless it's a forum run by Ibanez or Satch why bother? I don't see the correlation. I think both sides use the other as the excuse here. Every story has two sides and the truth. But that is just my opinion... glen

Rich · #7 01-12-2001, 12:46 AM

If you start with aproximate range that's all you'll end up with. Don't think that many of us haven't been trying to get production numbers, or solve specific mysteries about our speciaties. It's very complicated.

I think the only way to get the totals you're interested in is for somebody in Japan to actually physically go over years of production records. This would also provide key pieces of information I want to know, like what was the total # of JS bodies sent to the US in 90' - 93' for the graphics models. But I don't expect it to happen anytime soon.

Another problem is the records for H & H Guitars, Ibanez' internal (but run as a separate) company that did US production/finishing are 'lost', in other words, nobody knows exactly where they are. It would take Ibanez to put a guy 'on the job' of searching all the warehouse space where records are kept on the east and west coast, or were they sent back to Japan? when the company was disbanded, ......

Complicated. They would have to spare paid manpower to solve all the little riddles that only we care so much about, they don't. They look to the future and what's in the past is, .... past.

Rich · #8 01-12-2001, 01:01 AM

My guestimate (from neck plate #'s) is there were under 500 JS1000's made in 99'. Not a large # by any means. There have been just over 7000 Japanes JS models made so far since 90'. Just in case you really wanted to know :biggrin:

Scott Smith · #9 01-12-2001, 01:04 AM

OK, that's cool. I continue with the assumption that PBK's are rarer than UVMC's, GMC's, PMC's, and possibly GR's...

Look, if what Rich is saying is true, no one can tell the absolute truth so assumptions it is...

(If you don't think that PBK's are rare, how many come up for auction compaired to the other models I've mentioned? UVMC's are much more common. The MC Jems surface about as much as a PBK. Or RB, for that matter. Maybe everyone bought the PBK to play and put the GMC away. If so, that makes the PBK even more rare. Glad I have one)...

**jemsite** · #10 01-12-2001, 01:06 AM

Quote:

This would also provide key pieces of information I want to know, like what was the total # of JS bodies sent to the US in 90' - 93' for the graphics *models. But I don't expect it to happen anytime soon.

*Hey, how about we relocate jemfest to Japan. If not JF2K2 is there. We'll put Kevan in charge of this. By the time he returns we'll have a new forum too... LOL... glen

Kevan · #11 01-12-2001, 01:10 AM

Glen- this site is neither run by Vai nor Ibanez. *We're in the dark as much as they are...no?

I don't see it as anyone's "fault" or "excuse". *It's simply the fact that production totals weren't made public. *I do NOT believe it to be a ploy or a ruse to increase aftermarket value. *(As stated a million times before: a DSY is worth what someone is willing to pay for it.) *

I'd like to think that Ibanez said, "Well, no one really cares about totals...and Steve hasn't said for us to make it known...put the papers in the box. *We'll sort it out later.", and that box went away. *Even if Vai said today, "I need all the production totals on the VSK's.", it would take a seriously long time for the info to become available (reason: *see Rich's post). *I think Ibanez has gotten better in recent years, but...remember- it's all up to the artist.

My info comes from the same place Glen and Rich get their info from.

New Forum? *I'LL TAKE IT!!!! *Anything is better than this thing....goddamn Yugo on my screen....now where's my Jemsite.com sponsored ticket to Japan?

Rich · #12 01-12-2001, 01:14 AM

IMO the VSK is undoubtedly the rarest Jem. You could definatelt add the PBK as one of the rarer beasts. We all know how often things show up for sale, and you can pretty much equate that to how many were sold, with exceptions of course, but overall you're right Scott.

**jemsite** · #13 01-12-2001, 01:17 AM

Quote:

It's simply the fact that production totals weren't made public. *I do NOT believe it to be a ploy or a ruse to increase aftermarket value.

*I don't think it's a conspiracy theory either. I just think they already made their money selling them and have other things to worry about... like the 2001 models, etc. Not high on the priority list, nor it should be.

I'd rather Ibanez say "we don't know and we don't care" than to lay the BS about needing Steve's approval. Gimme a break... glen

Rich · #14 01-12-2001, 01:18 AM

Kev, I'm with you! We'll storm the factory with pocket protectors, filled with pens, calculators, and Universal Translators (so we can decipher those funny litte hyroglyphs they write in

)!!

Scott Smith · #15 01-12-2001, 01:54 AM

"Well, no one really cares about totals...and Steve hasn't said for us to make it known...put the papers in the box. *We'll sort it out later." That said by Kevan...

Are you serious??? No one cares about totals? You don't think the suits at Hoshino wanted to know the totals? Of couse they did. They need and want to know the production totals. They need it for their profit...

Why they don't want to publish it is beyond me. Maybe it's like Kevan said and after it was all counted and such they stuck the totals in the attic. Thinking no one was interested. But if that's the case then that's the reason for my post. Get them totals out of the attic and blow the dust off and let us know. But my PBK is staying put...

And it may not be a high priority but it would be nice. Look, I could care less how many 5K DNA's are available. Seems odd that only the limited edition totals are available, LNG, 10, 90, DNA. To ignore the regular production lines is weak, and upsets us older, non-LE, Jem owners...

(Edited by Scott Smith at 12:56 am on Jan. 12, 2001)