alternate picking problems

[rob777vdy]

morning lads.ive been having problems with my picking for many years now and cant seem to fix it.every fast solo i play starts with down up down up down upstrokes,but i can seem to play really fast.the first thing i do when i turn my amp on is practice scale patterns but can only play so fast i cant seem to speed it up.when i try to play faster it just feels uncomfortable and sounds messy.i thought all fast runs were down up down up ect ect.cheers lads

[teokiatuan]

I have a great pattern that will might help you with your problem

Try picking 2 notes on the A string, then 3 on the D using alternate picking, repeat.. many times.
This will help to programme your hand to alternate pick alot better.
I find this pattern helps me to get over the trickiest parts of alternate picking.

Good luck man.
Teo

[corpraider69]

John Petrucci has some cool ideas on gaining speed that were posted on You Tube I found his ideas very helpful.It was to mainly to get something down fairly clean at half speed then make a big speed jump up like 2x speed and then just try to clean it up.So atleast you would get used to playing at speed instead of just trying to nail it perfect for weeks and never getting up to speed. It has some merit I think Steve Vai had the same idea as well. He spent some time getting supper fast playing sloppy when he began but then eventually cleaned it up and was eventually super fast and super clean. Try a bunch of stuff it cant hurt if you are stuck in a rut.You could also use sweep picking,economy picking and legato in your playing that would certainly speed you up when you mastered them.

[Homebake]

metronome, metronome, metronome.

[smooth55]

+10000000 on the metronome. What I try to do is first learn the passage and get my hand comfortable playing it slowly. Once I've got it in my head and hands, I start to build the speed. I try to jump up at intervals of 5-10 bpm. One helpful thing I've found is to get it to where I play it perfectly 3 times in a row and then jump up 10 bpm to see if I can do it. If I really struggle, I immediately drop back down to where I was originally and play it 3 more times perfectly then up it 5 bpm and see if I can do that. If I jump up 10 bpm and find myself fairly able but still struggling, I'll drop it down only 5 bpm. Always get it to where you can play it a couple times perfectly before making the jump in speed.
It's also important that you not only play the part correctly, but that you're using correct technique. I don't think you have to play a particular way, but pay attention to where you have your thumb, are you anchoring, what fingerings are you using and is there a simpler way to work the passage, what angle is your pick in relation to the strings, etc. There are established techniques that help, but there's also what works for you and I think there's some room for balance in there.

[Brosa]

There is no easy way to play fast. Just hard practice and playing with a metronome.

Try to feel what kind of paterns you have difficulty with.

Probably you are quite good starting a fast line with an upstroke alternate picking or good with a downstroke.

Either way, when you've pinned down the problem area, just try to have fun practicing and keep it musical while you practice.

Paul Gilbert has loads of cool arternate picking exercises.

[Magical Muffin]

Originally Posted by corpraider69

John Petrucci has some cool ideas on gaining speed that were posted on You Tube I found his ideas very helpful.It was to mainly to get something down fairly clean at half speed then make a big speed jump up like 2x speed and then just try to clean it up.So atleast you would get used to playing at speed instead of just trying to nail it perfect for weeks and never getting up to speed. It has some merit I think Steve Vai had the same idea as well. He spent some time getting supper fast playing sloppy when he began but then eventually cleaned it up and was eventually super fast and super clean. Try a bunch of stuff it cant hurt if you are stuck in a rut.You could also use sweep picking,economy picking and legato in your playing that would certainly speed you up when you mastered them.

Shawn Lane would also do something like this.


A pretty small bit of advice, but if you start spazzing out with all the frustration of practice, just simply put the guitar down and do something that does not involve in you playing or thinking about music. Listening to it is fine, but just don't 'analyze' the crap out of it. Even if you don't have anything else to do, don't play guitar when your stressed out at it.

If it's a specific example or pattern your working on that your getting frustrated at, either do something completely different or something easier to play for a while.

Remember that petrucci type speed takes many years to develop, you can't 'get it' in 10 practice sessions in a week and a half. Those sessions will obviously help, but it's a gradual process were you don't notice the results unless you a) are anal about keeping track of everything and write speed and stuff like that down, or, the most 'natural' way where b) you slowly just notice small improvements in your playing and especially improvising.
(I just noticed you wrote 'many years' down, but I still think it still mostly applies)

[MattyG]

I'm not the greatest alternate picker in the world, preferring a more economy style like Gambale, but I can offer some tips.
Something I find quite useful for speeding up my AltPicking is working on speeding up my down strokes on their own and doing the same for the up stroke.
Using a metronome and just chugging out on the low E or doing scales, all downs and all ups.

I find this helps teach me to relax when it gets faster, because I don't know about you, but when I try to do fast down strokes my arm wants to get really stiff. Resist the stiffness LOL.

You need to figure out where you are struggling - not just speed necessarily - perhaps there is a string change that is slowing you down - I find the 'outside' string changes hard, where you for example play an up on one string, then need a down on the next string closer to the floor.
Finding little snags in the things you practice is crucial for improving your technique, so analyse what you are doing, otherwise you just get better at playing worse.

Try starting your exercises with down and up, not always down - this will make all the picks the other way round and really challenge you, but also keeps you prepared incase you accidently start the wrong way!

Sorry for the crap explanations - I'm super tired.

[corpraider69]

Originally Posted by Magical Muffin

Shawn Lane would also do something like this.


A pretty small bit of advice, but if you start spazzing out with all the frustration of practice, just simply put the guitar down and do something that does not involve in you playing or thinking about music. Listening to it is fine, but just don't 'analyze' the crap out of it. Even if you don't have anything else to do, don't play guitar when your stressed out at it.

If it's a specific example or pattern your working on that your getting frustrated at, either do something completely different or something easier to play for a while.

Remember that petrucci type speed takes many years to develop, you can't 'get it' in 10 practice sessions in a week and a half. Those sessions will obviously help, but it's a gradual process were you don't notice the results unless you a) are anal about keeping track of everything and write speed and stuff like that down, or, the most 'natural' way where b) you slowly just notice small improvements in your playing and especially improvising.
(I just noticed you wrote 'many years' down, but I still think it still mostly applies)

Shawn Lane was like out of this planet FAST,plus the stretches he did gave intervals to his playing that sounded like he was tapping notes when he wasn't.He is like the pinnacle of speed that I have seen plus he had great musicality to go with it! check this out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Skk9Q0Qd_k

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-f2Jq...eature=related


But you definitely don't have to play light speed fast to play stuff that is super cool this is my favorite betcha cant play this and it sounds better slow then it does real fast but its very melodic by Mike Campese

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BEuW6DOjfU

[rob777vdy]

cheers lads all cracking ideas and ways to improve my picking.what im using for picking speed at the moment is that quick run at the end of here i go again solo (whitesnake) dan huff aranged that peice,its very very fast,but im 2-3 notes behind due to my picking problems.off the top of my head id say crazy train is the fastest solo i can play.for someone who been playing 15 years im not as good as i should be,im no slouch but should be better

[Sickbean]

Originally Posted by rob777vdy

cheers lads all cracking ideas and ways to improve my picking.what im using for picking speed at the moment is that quick run at the end of here i go again solo (whitesnake) dan huff aranged that peice,its very very fast,but im 2-3 notes behind due to my picking problems.off the top of my head id say crazy train is the fastest solo i can play.for someone who been playing 15 years im not as good as i should be,im no slouch but should be better

Forget about how good you should be, focus on how good you could be.

One of the most exciting and rewarding thing about playing an instrument is that there is constant room for improvement.

I'd also recommend recording yourself playing exercises - you'd be amazed at how much you improve week on week when you have the perspective of actually listening to yourself - it's highly motivating too.

[As Hell Broke Loose]

Every idea that's been offered to you is completely valid. I especially agree with sickbean, record your playing. My suggestion to you is to work your ass off with the metronome, and drill your right hand as much as you can. However, hard work doesn't have the type of instant gratification that ripping up a solo does, so in the meantime, I'd recommend working on your legato technique. I'll be the first to admit that I'm lazy and my picking is not where it belongs, however, a good legato technique can cover alot of the holes that your shortcomings in alternate picking present.

[rob777vdy]

ok lads thanks very much,i will take on board what your all saying.thanks again.rob

[fefete]

hi rob!!! let me help you a little bit too.
Im playing guitar over 7 years, started doing that thing of Up and Downs picks.
Theres some times that we cannot go beyond our style, so then its where the fast solos that we like to play doesnt show off.

But, once a time ago, I found a little tiny book composed by Frank Gambale, and then I realize that this amazing JazzFusion Man dont always use Up & down. Most times He uses Up,Up,Down,Down Up,Down,Down,Up. Its really amazing. You gain extra speed and real good sound.
Chek it out some clinics of him, besides, he is the best in jazz fusion for me

(sorry for my english :P )

[Sickbean]

Originally Posted by fefete

hi rob!!! let me help you a little bit too.
Im playing guitar over 7 years, started doing that thing of Up and Downs picks.
Theres some times that we cannot go beyond our style, so then its where the fast solos that we like to play doesnt show off.

But, once a time ago, I found a little tiny book composed by Frank Gambale, and then I realize that this amazing JazzFusion Man dont always use Up & down. Most times He uses Up,Up,Down,Down Up,Down,Down,Up. Its really amazing. You gain extra speed and real good sound.
Chek it out some clinics of him, besides, he is the best in jazz fusion for me

(sorry for my english :P )

Your refering to economy picking - great for speed, but I feel you lose a little of the dynamics and rhythm.

Unless you're Frank Gambale of course, he makes it sound great.