Atonal music... - best way of aproaching it.

[Chan]

<<You just contradicted yourself. *If the song has three distinct tonal centers, then that would not comply with the tennative definition of atonal>>

I didn't contradict myself. Atonal is lack of a tonal center. Giant steps has 3 tonal centers. A is singular and since Giant Steps has 3 and 3 isn't 1 then by that definition it's atonal (well mybe it is if "Two become one" and there's "Three of a perfect pair"). That said I still agree that this isn't atonal. If it sounds tonal I don't see how it can be atonal. The sound comes before the theory.

[Devo]

bach wrote music that went through several tonal centers in the span of say 50 bars, if you said to any musician that because it has more than one tonal centre it is atonal they would promptly hit you in the face with a cricket bat, (or somthing to that effect)

atonality can apply to a short passage in the middle of any piece, or an entire work.

something being atonal is the same as something being in any arbitrary key (sayG minor), its a state of key, it has rules like equal importance to every note in the 12 tone scale, just like G minor has its rules relating to the tonic dominant and subdominant etc, modulating to another key does not ever ever ever under any circumstance ever ever ever make something atonal just because now the piece has two keys.
being chromatic as said before is not necessarily being atonal.

Polytonality is a form of pseudo-atonality but that is an argument for another discussion.

hows that Jay??

or have I just done another lap????

Steve

[jay ratkowski]

Steve - I think that was a good step in the right direction.

"quickly, to the hydrofoil!"

[jay ratkowski]

Chan -
"Giant steps is atonal(it moves through 3 tonal centers)"
"Giant steps has 3 tonal centers."

How is this not a contradiction???

[Chan]

<<How is this not a contradiction???>>

I think everyone has agreed that atonal is music without a tonal center. Key word (letter) is "a". "a" is 1 not 3. Josh is say that going through a never ending cycle of unrelated chords would be atonal, but it's not. I wasn't saying that Giant Steps was atonal, I was using it as an example of something that changes keys in a constant cycle, but is still considered tonal.

[jay ratkowski]

"I wasn't saying that Giant Steps was atonal, I was using it as an example of something that changes keys in a constant cycle, but is still considered tonal. "

Okay, I just got a little confused there when you said it WAS atonal. *