Basic modes question - What do I do with these things?

[clueless]

I'm new to this mode stuff; *what I'm wondering is how I use these things. *For instance, I've got a book that explains that this mode is for use over this type of chord (example: *Dorian for minor 7th or dominant 7th sus4, Lydian #5 for Major 7 #5, etc.). *

Now, I play mostly rock, so I never run into a dominant 7 sus4. *Most of it is root-fifth chords, or at most triads. *Yet, Plenty of rock players use modes, apparently for some purpose.

So, If I play a I-IV-V progression, do I play the major or minor scale over the tonic chord, and then change to the fourth and fifth modes of that scale over the IV and V chords? *Or is that totally wrong?

I'd like to learn the modes by recording rhythm parts and then practicing changing modes over the various chords, but I can't really get started on this 'till I know what I'm supposed to do.

Thanks,

Jack

[GuyCool]

A short bit of practical advice to build upon when you've got this bit sussed.

Say you are playing a I IV V. Just try playing the dorian, phrygian, or mixolydian over the chords and stay in that mode through the whole progression ie if you are playing a minor 12 bar in E, play E dorian ie Dmajor, over the chords . Few of the notes will sound wrong.

As usual, if it sounds good it is good blah blah blah


Guy

[jay ratkowski]

First and foremost, listen to the different modes so you can tell how their color notes affect the overall feel of that particular mode. *For instance, a Dorian has an exotic minor sound as it is relative to the Lydian mode, while a Mixolydian has a totally different character. *There is an interview somewhere on the net where Joe Satch illustrates this point. *Hit and let ring an open E note, and then on the other strings, play different modes whose roots are an E. *You'll quickly see how a mixolydian is a totally different flavor than an ionian.

It's also totally blatant that you will have 3 major modes, 3 minor modes, and 1 diminished mode (assuming you aren't a player who bases his music on some sick Western European scale). *So my point is, although it could sound fine, you wouldn't really think about playing a Dorian mode or minor triads over a major chord from the same key (assuming we are not using polychords here).

Try the exercise I suggested and see if that doesn't get you going in the right direction.

[Carlo]

Jay- I think the Satch interview your talking about can be found at guitar.com. *Great site! *There are many other interesting celebrity videos there too, like Zakk Wylde and Steve Morse etc. *They give very helpful practice tips. All are in Real Audio. * *

[jem7vwh]

just to add on to the good comments my buddies here have given, I'd like to add that just because some book says to try Lydian over a dominant-7 sus 13 broken chord (an exaggeration, thank God!) doesn't mean you have to. *You can hear a mode over it's own root. *Play and E and then play the E Lydian mode: E F# G# A# B C# D# E, you'll hear that sharp 4. *As you play those notes over other chords, the tonality and character will change. *What was Lydian over E becomes Ionian over B. *It's all relative and don't let books pigeonhole you.

[rosskoss]

Try this small exercise and it will give you a good picture of the tonality of the different modes.Take a starting note, D and write down the different modes that start with that note...i.e. D dorian,D lydian,D locrian etc.

Now using that note as a tension/drone note,play these different modes.You should get a good idea of how the different modes feel. eghyrgian sounds very egyption and lydian reminds you of superhero movies.

I got this off vinnie moore's instr. video.His descriptions of the tonalities of the diff. modes fit them perfectly.

[eviltwin]

To me, the difference between modes is in the notes that characterize the mode: IE phrygian with respect to aeolian lowers the second, that's the sound you hear, some may call it "Eqyptian", others call it "Metal"; in the end it's what you do with it.

When I got into this stuff,i listened carefully to songs like Satch's "War"

My teacher arranged them from "Super Happy/Bright"
[lydian, major 3rd, major 2nd, raised 4th, major 7th]
all the way down to "Super Sad/Dark"
[locrian, minor 3rd, lowered 2nd, lowerd 6th, 7th]

Try to get the mood of a mode, then apply it to a theme or melody you are comfortable with and notice how the atmosphere changes.

Learning modes is great, but it's in the notes and their relations. Just play them and fool around with them.

[Devo]

the handy thing about jamming over root+fifth only chords is that you can choose the mode ( depending on the pace of the chord change ) yourself as you jam.

For example if you play open E (bass) and B (2nd fret fifth string) you can play any mode you like dorian, lydian flat 7 (my favourite) with the exception of locrian or phrygian sharp 5 etc.....

the more notes in the chord the more confined you are to particular keys and modes

hope this helps

Steve

[jay ratkowski]

I tend to dissagree with Devo here.

Powerchords are nice for simplicity... but in the end I don't think you get any of the real flavor of the mode by playing such basic chord progressions. *Even if your note choice on soloing/melody is really tasteful... you still don't get much of the effect of the mode. *

[Devo]

I think I came accross the wrong way, the guy asked how he could use these modes over *I-IV-V root fifth only chords so I tried to give an example how,

your right Jay It doesnt capture the flavour of each individual mode, thats why I mentioned that as you add more notes to your chords you build up a tonality giving you a key centre-ish sort of thing

sorry for the mix

Steve