Creative Key Changing

[CalledToArms]

I am looking for some more interesting ways to change between keys - especially ones that are far apart. I know there are TONS of ways and I've seen other bands do some really cool stuff, but what I generally do I feel is pretty basic and I'd love to learn a few tricks from people who know a lot more than I do. (which isnt that hard to be at that point hehe)

For example in a very basic sense, moving to a key based on a chord already in your current key is pretty easy. Lets take the key of C. Its easy to switch into the key of F from the C7 chord. Just like its easy to switch into the key of G using the D7 chord. I know those are pretty elementary tactics but its fairly easy since the key you're switching to is pretty complimentary of the key you're coming from.

But say you are looking at going from D major (D - Em - F#m - G - A - Bm - c#dim) to F# major (F# - G#m - A#m - B - C# - D#m - e#dim). As you can see, they do not share any chords with each other at all and only share a few notes ( F#, B, and C#). Basically, they're pretty far from each other tonally. (although I did get a little lucky when I randomly picked this with the F# and the B heh).

Anywho, the main thing I would use would be to notice that F# = the 5th of B or that B is the IV of an F#(I) - kind of like i mentioned in my second paragraph. So I would just do something like [D A Em F#7]+ [B D#m C#7 F#] to start in the key of D major and end up in F# major pretty smoothly.

Another method I tend to use is to transition/resolve off of the c#dim chord (C# E G (B) ) to something a half step away from the notes in the diminished chord since, even though this specific dim chord is in a key, it doesnt commit strongly to just 1 particular key. For example after the C#dim from Dmajor, I feel like I could go to a G#m chord from F#major since the G in the c#dim is the diminished 5th that wants to get "pulled up" to a perfect 5th. the G# would be the perfect 5th and the G#m also has a B.

And while both of those usually work, I feel like they are pretty simple (although I think there are some cooler things I could do from the dim chord that I dont know about)

Anyone have any tricks for moving between 2 different keys to help a newbie out ?

[rastachild]

from the examples you listed, i guess you are talking about non-diatonic key changes, right? there are a few 'tricks' i use, although i do them subconsciously instead of intentionally.

one thing that you can really get some good mileage off of to change keys creatively is chromatic movement. it's one of my favorite ways to melodically and logically move out of the key that i'm in and spice up a song or chord progresssion. my latest tune has a solo progression that has this progression:

E5 - Fmaj7 - E5 - D#

the cool thing about this progression is that it doesn't sound dissonant (at least not to my ears), but requires some definite mode switching when soloing over it. e phrygian works well over the first 3 chords, but you have to move to d# maj/lydian over that last chord. on an interesting note, the riff that lead into that chord progression is in D min/dorian. the voice leading of the single note riff nicely leads to a key center of E.

parallel chord movement can help you change keys too. using the same chord (whether it be a maj7, min7, etc.) you can move the same chord through different keys until you reach the 'target key'. this one usually is situational and needs a good set up to work. but feel free to experiment.

[CalledToArms]

from the examples you listed, i guess you are talking about non-diatonic key changes, right?

Any really, be it diatonic or not. I'm just looking for some input from some more experienced people on here. I just listed a few examples that came to mind that I was working with recently when writing.

I appreciate the feedback and I'll mess around when I get home from work!

there are a few 'tricks' i use, although i do them subconsciously instead of intentionally.

unfortunately I am not there yet hehe. I dont have as much "go to" knowledge in my head where this stuff comes naturally, but I am getting better at understanding it if I take my time with it and sometimes write it down on a sheet of paper to help me think it out.

[Veno]

Well **** mate... I really know this stuff good (just graduated in my music high school ), unfortunately, I don't know the English name for most things. However, be warned (this much I know my English), the diminished chords are a gift from the gods if your having trouble with modulating to far apart keys. They are very flexible and you should do some research on them

[MattyCakes]

many old jazz standards rely on secondary dominants

[CalledToArms]

is secondary dominants what I was talking about with the dominants in my first post? it very well could be I just didnt know the name for it probably

[Fleg/DJFrey]

Lets take the key of C. Its easy to switch into the key of F from the C7 chord.

Just want to ask how you can play a C7 in the key of C ? Usually the the dominant chord can't be the 1st degrees , i still have a lot to learn about modal music but in Tonal music like classical etc it's impossible.

Sorry for the bad english.

Johann

[MattyCakes]

Originally Posted by Fleg/DJFrey

Just want to ask how you can play a C7 in the key of C ? Usually the the dominant chord can't be the 1st degrees , i still have a lot to learn about modal music but in Tonal music like classical etc it's impossible.

Sorry for the bad english.

Johann

the point is that, if you did play a C7 in C, you would really be in F already. just a segway

[CalledToArms]

i am certainly not extremely knowledgeable but in my experience it depends on whether you are saying it "can't" be in a musically 'legal' sense or in a tonal sense. As long as the key of C is blatantly established hitting a C7 does not sound completely out of place. Sure it is easy to pick up with the ear that C7 is not inherently in the key of C but at the same time it is only 1 note different than a C major triad, and all the notes of a C major triad are present. And because of that it can add flavor and be used as a transition in my opinion/experience.

There are things that composers did like adding "colorful" notes that were not at all in the key they were in, and then a few bars later adding another, and then adding more until they had "introduced" 4 notes or so out of the current key but in another key, so that when they transitioned all of a sudden it made sense why those notes were there.

[rastachild]

Originally Posted by CalledToArms

i am certainly not extremely knowledgeable but in my experience it depends on whether you are saying it "can't" be in a musically 'legal' sense or in a tonal sense. As long as the key of C is blatantly established hitting a C7 does not sound completely out of place. Sure it is easy to pick up with the ear that C7 is not inherently in the key of C but at the same time it is only 1 note different than a C major triad, and all the notes of a C major triad are present. And because of that it can add flavor and be used as a transition in my opinion/experience.

There are things that composers did like adding "colorful" notes that were not at all in the key they were in, and then a few bars later adding another, and then adding more until they had "introduced" 4 notes or so out of the current key but in another key, so that when they transitioned all of a sudden it made sense why those notes were there.

you are spot on here. people sometimes get confused with the terminology of 'key'. there is key signature and key center and they are not always the same. key signature refers to how many sharps or flats are on the staff and basically let you know what notes the piece is based on. it does not necessarily tell you what note the piece is 'centered' around, as a piece of music with one sharp could be emphasizing G major, or its relative minor, E minor (or any of the relative modes of G major).

key center just lets you know what note the piece has as a tonic. where the harmony and melody tend to gravitate towards. it is independent of key signature and imo is probably more applicable in discussions regarding modern music (especially rock music). a great example of this would be hendrix's 'purple haze'. we all know that the tonic chord used in that tune is a E7#9, which is a bizarre tonic chord when trying to place it in the context of key signature. but our ears are accustomed to these frequent deviations from classically based harmony and it is actually a very common nowadays. i don't think anyone who listens to that song thinks that the E7#9 is functioning as a dominant chord. so call to arms can have a C7 that, if placed properly in the context of his music, could feel as though it was the tonic chord, even though in a classical sense, dominant seventh chords typically function to lead to a tonic that is a 4th away.

very interesting stuff in a totally musical nerd sort of way.

[CalledToArms]

there you go, you said it better than I haha. Its not IN the key, but its close enough to not sound totally out of place, and lets me transition to F