Drastic overhaul to technique.

[Eggy]

Originally Posted by crevis

That bigheaded comment was in response to this bigheaded comment..................

It's extremely rare that I do this but...

I've gotta call you out on that one sunshine. I've been playing for 23yrs. You've been alive aprox 19yrs. This info is freely available to anyone in your public profile. All I'm doing is stating fact. At no point have I said that I am, or think I am a better guitarist than anyone else (including you).
Throughout these 23yrs of playing I have been through many, many phases. I've been into Gambale too. I spent a few months studying his instructional video during the 80's (that's VHS kiddo ) I actualy realy liked his teachings of the modes where he uses the reference of the piano keys from middle C, whole step, half step etc. I've never singled you out to bitch about your influences or anything remotely like that. I've got no idea why you feel threatened by me or feel the need to attack me and frankly I don't give a sh*t.
I started this thread to talk about a corner I have turned in my playing which sends me off in a different direction than the one I was heading. To talk about a realisation that sometimes what you thought was good for your playing can turn out to be the opposite. Some people might read this thread and think "well that's never happened to me" and some people might think "oh, I kinda know what you mean". I'll never know who rattled your cage and invited you in to start making personal digs at me but one thing I know for sure is that your a very little puppy, yapping up completely the wrong tree.

Ben

[jemplayer55]

What a thread...... actually, pretty typical amongst musicians/guitarists and our limited ability to recognize music for what it's intention really is most of the time.

It's pretty sad when we're so "jaded" we can't be "moved" by a single note or the most primitive of musical expression...... Simplicity with honesty and emotion. If one note won't "move" you, 1000 won't either eventually.

I will say this Eggy..... If you're standing on stage and analyzing your playing to the point of "I'm in this mode and just switched from that mode", you're overanalyzing your playing too much and no wonder you and the crowd might be getting bored! Not to mention reason you've grown bored of listening to your favorite players or influences too.

Then it seems everyone has an opinion regarding what or how to be creative. Be it technique or theory or a particular genre or style of music. It's pretty comical when some put down or are bored by players for only being proficient at say a pentatonic scale..... while others don't see or understand the "feeling" in listening to a jazz solo.

All this does have it's virtues and usefulness though...... that's for us to utilize all that you do know while being creative enough to entertain the audience. That's who counts, that's who'll pay your bills at the end of the show. Not how much theory you know, or how great your technique is. Bottom line the majority of the audience or the promoters/label exec's could really care less.

They are looking to see if tickets or disc's have moved and the only way that happens is to entertain and leave your audience wanting more.

It just kills me to see a guitarist "blow his wad" in the first song only to be left wondering why the crowd oh'd and ah'd for the first three minutes of the set and chatted & ignored the band the rest of the night.

Or how about going to a concert and "knowing" you're a "better" guitarist than Joe Blow who's selling millions of albums but doesn't know a Dorian mode from the guy in "dorkian" mode doing the judging?

I guess at some point we all will have that great epiphany regarding our music and what it's actually all about. Who really cares how much theory you know or whether you can "shred" like (insert your latest guitar gods name here). It's about conveying feeling and letting go of those emotions in peices that capture your audience from song to song.

I recently had the pleasure of seeing the Garza brothers work their "magic" on the crowd..... Mind you Henry Garza is not some "guitar god" or even a "gunslinger" type player. But collectively the band entertained the crowd by doing two things..... playing from emotion and using their music to interact and connect with the crowd.

So to sum it up..... Eggy, I'm not so sure you need to overhaul your technique or even further your theory training. More like just play to entertain the crowd first and you'll find that enjoyment and satisfaction again within.

We all need to remember you can't judge a player for his theoretical or technical prowess but on how well he invokes emotion, interacts with his fellow musicians, and entertains the crowd. That requires everyone in the band to interact with each other as well as the crowd and letting the crowd "touch" you and the music.

All the rest.... theory, techinque, genre of music and how well you master them are just tools to achive a goal...... to entertain!

Ya gotta treat music like a painting..... use the colors sparingly, with the right tools, and under the right lighting and background for inspiration, suddenly a masterpiece performance will appear. (yeah.... right)

[Eggy]

My whole point to this thread was that I caught myself "going through the motions" and realised that I needed to sit down and have a think about what I was doing.

[jemplayer55]

Oh..... because it came off as "you were going through the motions of thinking about what you were doing" too much!

[OLIE_ROCKS_THE_80'S]

Hey guys what we should realize is that we are all musicians here and we should foster a feeling of comradely rather than stupid competition.
Let's just try to build one another instead of tearing us down!!!
Too much dissonance screws up the Harmony!!!

[newbieguitarmaker]

Originally Posted by OLIE_ROCKS_THE_80'S

Hey guys what we should realize is that we are all musicians here and we should foster a feeling of comradely rather than stupid competition.
Let's just try to build one another instead of tearing us down!!!
Too much dissonance screws up the Harmony!!!

yeah exactly, competitive musicians annoy me. I think we should all just get along and help each other out when someone is in need, put ego aside

[jemplayer55]

Originally Posted by OLIE_ROCKS_THE_80'S

Too much dissonance screws up the Harmony!!!

This sounds like something a Schenker/Lynch clone would say..... It sounds just so..... so 80's (too much theory in that quote if ya ask me)

[OLIE_ROCKS_THE_80'S]

Originally Posted by jemplayer55

This sounds like something a Schenker/Lynch clone would say..... It sounds just so..... so 80's (too much theory in that quote if ya ask me)

[crevis]

Originally Posted by Tom Gilroy

Right yeah, because Marty Friedman, for example, can't write good music, since he, by his own admission doesn't understand musical theory.

People take that quote as saying "I have no idea what I'm doing but it sounds good" He underestimates his own understanding of theory, he knows a hell of a lot about harmonization but it's his own understanding.

eg, I remember in one of his videos he shows you a harmonic minor scale, he doesn't know what it's called but that doesn't mean he doesn't know how to use it, and it doesn't mean he "doesn't understand musical theory".

Ben, this is what I got from you, 'I've playing for 23 years, I'm too lazy and uncommital to properly understand theory but I know enough to act like I know everything there is to know, and guess what it got me no where so everyone stop learning theory because it gets you no where, I just want to play crappy wannabe rock that gets the crowd cheering'.

If you'd just said, 'I know a few scales but I just can't grasp how to use them properly and theory just isn't for me, I just want to have fun on stage playing guitar' I wouldn't care.

Btw, I laughed when I watched your video, you look (and played) like a 16 year old imagining he was angus young in front of 100,000 people cheering his name.

[jemplayer55]

Originally Posted by crevis

Btw, I laughed when I watched your video, you look (and played) like a 16 year old imagining he was angus young in front of 100,000 people cheering his name.

Ouch...... man this just reeks of musical/musician elitism.

Crevis..... to sit and draw judgements on fellow players is pretty shallow for someone truly "studying" music.... be it theory, technique, advanced composition, or music history. I may not agree with Eggy's approach or philosophy regarding his craft, but to put him down achieves nothing!

Of course, you're entitled to your opinion and the opportunity to voice it. But sometimes you'd do better off trying to understand another players approach to their musicianship and craft than to make general comparison to your own musicianship and/or level of knowledge.

I guess if that's the only "benchmark" you have to gauge from though, that would explain a lot.

Either that was harsh criticism at best... or just a cheap shot! (Hmmm....Something we should expect?)

See if you can find a course on interacting with other musicians..... you may find it beneficial.

[andy7jem]

One thing i have always found is that jazz people are excessively snobbish and feel that any other music is beneath them

Sad really!

[Eggy]

Originally Posted by crevis

People take that quote as saying "I have no idea what I'm doing but it sounds good" He underestimates his own understanding of theory, he knows a hell of a lot about harmonization but it's his own understanding.

eg, I remember in one of his videos he shows you a harmonic minor scale, he doesn't know what it's called but that doesn't mean he doesn't know how to use it, and it doesn't mean he "doesn't understand musical theory".

Ben, this is what I got from you, 'I've playing for 23 years, I'm too lazy and uncommital to properly understand theory but I know enough to act like I know everything there is to know, and guess what it got me no where so everyone stop learning theory because it gets you no where, I just want to play crappy wannabe rock that gets the crowd cheering'.

If you'd just said, 'I know a few scales but I just can't grasp how to use them properly and theory just isn't for me, I just want to have fun on stage playing guitar' I wouldn't care.

Btw, I laughed when I watched your video, you look (and played) like a 16 year old imagining he was angus young in front of 100,000 people cheering his name.

Thanks for that Crevis

Now I don't have to write down a long winded post on how I think you're acting like a prat, you've done it all for me.

Ben

[OLIE_ROCKS_THE_80'S]

Originally Posted by andy7jem

One thing i have always found is that jazz people are excessively snobbish and feel that any other music is beneath them

Sad really!

Sad but true!!! although the real Jazz masters are the most humble and nicest people you will ever want to meet!!! my Guitar teacher was one of those!