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[vaidream77]

what is a *o7th chord? such as a F#o7 ( the "o" should be up in the air).... and where would be the best place on the neck to play it? i ran into this chord in my high school jazz band....strange....

[Two hands31]

Diminished 7.

[jem7vwh]

A Diminished chord can be played by substituting a Diminished 3rd.

F#Dim. would be spelled F# G# C#

[sixstringphoenix]

Correction, Chris:
The formula for a diminished triad is 1 b3 b5.
F#dim is spelled F# A C.
F# G# C# is an F#sus2 chord.
EDIT- also, there is no such thing as a diminished 3rd; only minor - and you wouldn't be substituting it. You would be lowering the fifth to make a diminished 5th (tritone) however.

And the formula for that °7 chord would be 1 b3 b5 bb7. Notice each interval is equidistant (a minor third apart in each case; remember, bb7 = 6).
Thus F#°7 is spelled F# A C Eb.

You can play these anywhere on the neck. Each °7 chord could actually have four different roots, because the construction is symmetrical.
Thus F# A C Eb could be F#°7, A°7, C°7, or Eb°7; context decides the root (surrounding harmony/underlying bass).

Common shapes - keep in mind these are movable:
E A D G B E
x x 1 2 1 2
x 4 5 3 5 x
3 4 5 3 x x

Diminished chords are very versatile. And of course they resolve quite nicely to the tonic major chord.

Good luck,
-Justin

(Edited by sixstringphoenix at 12:49 pm on Nov. 25, 2001)

[vaidream77]

thanks six

[Two hands31]

sixstringphoenix on 12:44 pm on Nov. 25, 2001
EDIT- also, there is no such thing as a diminished 3rd; only minor

Correction-There IS such thing as a diminished 3rd. *It's a semi-tone lower than a minor 3rd. *

Here's how intervals work:
(dim=diminished, min=minor, maj=major, aug=augmented, P=perfect)

dim2-min2-maj2-aug2dim3-min3-maj3-aug3
dim4-P4-aug4dim5-P5-aug5
dim6-min6-maj6-aug6
dim7-min7-maj7-aug7
There's no major or minor 4th or 5th or octave. *Everthing has a diminished and an augmented. *Each dash (-) means 1 semi-tone. *I.E. *dim2 is 1 semi-tone lower than min2 and vice-versa.

[sixstringphoenix]

But I have yet to see a chord that uses a dim3... Like Chris said above, it would be a Sus2 sonority.

-Justin

[Devine]

Chris-
*
* * Where is this diminished theory coming from? *You are using non-diatonic scales...?

[sixstringphoenix]

Two hands31, I read your post again.

It is logical but in theory (literally, hehe):
-A dim2 is the same as the root. It's useless nomenclature.
-Aug2/Dim3 is also clumsy notation, because they're the same thing as a major 2nd and don't really exist! (Ever heard it in a chord name? I think not.)
-Aug3 would equal a perfect fourth. What's the reason to have an Aug3 in your chord? You can only have one third, so "A D E" would be Asus4, not Aaug3 (because that would imply a major and an "augmented" third [which doesn't truly exist]).
-Dim4 would equal a major third. More clumsy nomenclature - I haven't seen it anywhere.
-Dim6 is the same as a perfect 5th. Using "perfect 5th" is a lot more direct, and I haven't seen Dim6 anywhere either.
-Aug6 is a flat seventh. It wouldn't make sense to call "A C# E G" Aaug6 would it? It's A7.
-An aug7 is equal to an octave. Using "aug7" is cumbersome. When I hear "aug7" I think of the chord formula 1 3 #5 b7.

In other words, augmented and perfect only apply to 4ths and 5ths; diminished, only to 5ths and 7ths; and major and minor to 2nds, 3rds, 6ths, and 7ths. Not every non-4th/5th interval has a diminished and augmented version...

-Justin

(Edited by sixstringphoenix at 7:47 pm on Nov. 25, 2001)

[jem7vwh]

a few corrections. *Justin is correct, a diminished chord is implying a diminished 5th, not a third.

However, a diminished 3rd does exist. *It just an enharmonic spelling a major 2nd. *

[sixstringphoenix]

I've never seen an F#dim3 chord before, have you?

[jem7vwh]

yes..kinda. *during jazz lessons I was asked to play a Cdim3maj10

[sixstringphoenix]

It might help if they used up-to-date nomenclature. LOL. I think that would be better expressed as Cadd2 (although that doesn't specify to displace the E an octave).

-Justin

[dwswift]

Don't confuse naming intervals with triads and seventh chords.

The use of such "clumsy nomenclature," as Justin put it, is much more useful in traditional harmony where most augmented and diminished intervals are forbidden unless used within certain strict rules.

In contemporary Jazz harmony, these awkard spellings are often overlooked for easier reading material. *

As for a Cdim3maj10? *Well, that's just simply an incorrect name That's like calling a G Major triad a GP5major10. *Chords just aren't named that way.

[jem7vwh]

let's be clear here.

no amount of nomenclature will change the nature of a chord.

a Csus2 is a C dim. 3

it's the same thing.

Furthermore, even if it is "clumsy" it is useful to know all of the different harmonic spellings in case they come up.

the Cdim3maj10 I was talking about came straight from a jazz bands lead sheet. *Their horn player had written a song and that's the chord he came up with. *Try telling a 60 year old guy to just write Csus 2. *Additionally, it was a case where the presence of the 3rd was important. *So you couldn't just substiute the 2 in for the 3, he wanted the 2 & 3 played.