good songs to illustate the concept of 'pocket'

[kennydoe]

Hey guys

I'm not crazy about posting this in this forum, as i'm not sure how many actually visit here, but here goes....

I'm breakingi n a new drummer. He's technically very good and he's a good singer too....however, he just doesn't seem to have 'the groove'. I gently made him aware that he needs to work on his feel a little...

He needed more specific examples. I told him to listen to Stevie Wonder and lots of black drummers....but I was having a hard time being more specific. I've since come up with examples of lots of James Brown records and certain Steely Dan songs (Peg, for example).

Now I know that pocket is created by a bass player and a drummer, but some drummers seem to be able to create that feel with just about anyway.

Anyway...i'd appreciate some example of good funk/funky 'pocket' songs. Dream Theater examples are not welcome .

~K

[Drew]

You and DT...

I'd recommend all of the Hendrix "Band of Gypsys" disc. Hendrix's leads basically define "in the pocket" on that album, and the drums and bass are rock solid.

-D

[Reaper]

Jeff Plate of Savatage is an extremely solid drummer. I don't know if that really helps... I'd say primarily Hendrix, or maybe some Black Sabbath. Maybe Rush? It's not real funky, but Lee and Peart are extremely tight rhthmically, and Peart has a great sense of rhythm.

[darren wilson]

Listen to some Primus. Two albums i'd recommend are "Suck On This" (live) and "Sailing the Seas of Cheese" have lots of great for tight drum/bass interplay and wicked grooves.

[Knightmeir]

They might not be the most memorable for the sound of their drums, but Queen did a lot of good stuff, and it's not your arch enemy, Dream Theater....
Oh, and let's not forget the one armed guy from Def Leopard.

[spencer096]

Miles Davis - Bitches Brew and In a Silent Way these songs are totally about playing in the pocket and grooving, best choice in my opinion.

Pink Floyd - Animals, the song Dogs is the best example off this disc

Allman Brothers - Live at Fillmore East 2 drummers, but still great examples

Keith Jarrett - anything with his trio (Gary Pea****, bass and Jack DeJohnette, drums) DeJohnette is a great drummer to listen to because he accents while keeping the groove, he was also the drummer on the Davis discs listed above.

[Jamie]

Bootsy Collins' solo stuff?

Don't want to be obvious but Chad Smith & Flea?

[darren wilson]

Originally Posted by Jamie

Don't want to be obvious but Chad Smith & Flea?

That's so weird... i was just thinking of "Warped" by RHCP and what a wicked groove that song has. Dave Navarro playing guitar definitely adds to the "pocket" factor.

[stu777dy]

You cant talk about "in the pocket" without mentioning Tower of Power - Try Drop it in the slot for starters.

How about Jungle Boogie - Kool and the gang, Funkadelic - One nation under a groove, Jamiroquai - Canned heat etc etc

[Ayrton]

Originally Posted by Jamie

Don't want to be obvious but Chad Smith & Flea?

That was my vote.

[elcid]

Booker T and the MGs?

[jemplayer55]

Originally Posted by kennydoe

Hey guys

I'm not crazy about posting this in this forum, as i'm not sure how many actually visit here, but here goes....

I'm breakingi n a new drummer. He's technically very good and he's a good singer too....however, he just doesn't seem to have 'the groove'. I gently made him aware that he needs to work on his feel a little...

He needed more specific examples. I told him to listen to Stevie Wonder and lots of black drummers....but I was having a hard time being more specific. I've since come up with examples of lots of James Brown records and certain Steely Dan songs (Peg, for example).

Now I know that pocket is created by a bass player and a drummer, but some drummers seem to be able to create that feel with just about anyway.

Anyway...i'd appreciate some example of good funk/funky 'pocket' songs. Dream Theater examples are not welcome .

~K

I'm going to give this a shot.... but to me playing in the "pocket" is more of a transitional state that occurs when several musicians during a song or performance begin to communicate musically on a higher plane. Their timing is impeccable and all contributions by each musician take the music to a special place seldom achieved on most albums or during live performance.
With that said..... don't take it wrong, but to me there is a difference between having a tight rhythm section (bass/drums) and playing in the pocket. Having that (tight bass/drums) is mandatory for "playing in the pocket" to occur. Some of the songs and performers listed above are good examples of in the pocket. Undoubtedly, one of the best examples given is Jimi Hendrix with Mitch Mitchell & Noel Redding. Santana is another fine example. Along with recordings like "Spectrum" by Billy Cobham with Tommy Bolin. That was one example straight from heaven. You have a Jazz /Fusion drummer & bass player teaming up with basically a rock player and the magic just happen from the first punch-in!
Any jazz band worth it's weight, get to the pocket pretty frequently. Gota go with Kenny too in regards to Steely Dan, those guys could get there pretty easily too. Eric Johnson with Tommy Taylor & Rosco Beck, Joe Sat. with Stu Hamm, heck the list goes on. Checkout "Congo Square" by Sonny Landreth with David Ranson, Mel Melton & The Wicked Mojos on "Live at Grant Street Dancehall". They weave in and out of the pocket several times.
Anyway, , specific funk tracks I'm short on..... but they're definitely out there. Here's a link regarding playing in the pocket.

http://www.allaboutjazz.com/php/article.php?id=17487

[Josh_P]

Black The Sky - Kings X

nuff said

[Davey]

I can't believe nobody has noticed Kenny asked this question 3 YEARS ago, lol

[MilkshakeFiend]

Originally Posted by Ibanez249

I can't believe nobody has noticed Kenny asked this question 3 YEARS ago, lol

LMAO weeeeeell better late than never, aye?

I wonder if Kenny still has that drummer lol!