heavy pick attack = speed/accuracy

vette6600 · #1 10-20-2005, 03:33 AM

this is a question for any players out there who have a VERY solid technique and are pretty much fearless in tackling alternate picked lines (i know you're out there!) :

so here's the deal; i've noticed that, of the proficient shredders i've played with, their picking attack is really heavy. when playing at low volumes, you actually hear their picking over the amp because they're striking the strings so hard ( hopefully im not making it sound like they have a sloppy technique). i've only really had the chance to rock out with a few, 3 or 4, players with rock solid technique, but this is the case every time.

what i want to know is this: is it necessary to have such force on the strings(with your pick) to develop a truly flawless techique? i've been playing for sometime now and alternate picking (16th notes in the 200 bpm and up range) is something i cant stay consistent with. on the other hand, my buddy that i jam with often and has great technique will pick up a guitar and say " i haven't played in a few days" but he'll still pull off some amazing stuff.

so should go through all my excercises and dig into the strings a bit more?

once again, this question is for someone that really has their sh*t together.

thanks

mi2tom · #2 10-20-2005, 03:50 AM

There was a time when I'm a lousy picker (years ago) My teacher even teach me every lesson on picking.... Keep on practising..... Yes when you turn the volume you can hear the picking attacks are very heavy ..... You need to dig deep into the strings but yet remain agile... I used to pick the strings until I break them and not only downward picking but alternate picking..... And when you have this kind of technique you won't want to use the legato technique ...

nickcoumbe · #3 10-20-2005, 03:52 AM

Ironically, the best guitarist I have played with had a really soft attack, light strings, and a low action. I don't think heavy picking is necessarily the path to being flawless. If I knew the best path to beng flawless, I would already be following it. Unfortunately I am not.

mi2tom · #4 10-20-2005, 04:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nickcoumbe

Ironically, the best guitarist I have played with had a really soft attack, light strings, and a low action. I don't think heavy picking is necessarily the path to being flawless. If I knew the best path to beng flawless, I would already be following it. Unfortunately I am not.

Cos due to constant practise their heavy picking become very soft and seems very easy to them but still when you hear them play with their volume down you can hear the picking sound.....

nickcoumbe · #5 10-20-2005, 07:54 AM

So what you are saying is that you started hard to get the speed, then became more controlled over time. I like that idea.

Actually talking about legato, the guy with the soft techniqu was really into Alex Skolnick, and his legato stuff particularly. I suppose he developed a softer technique so that the transition wasn't quite so apparent between the two styles.

I don't tend to pick that hard, but I do find that I have to turn up a practice amp a decent amount to get rid of the noise. Maybe I play harder than I thought.

mi2tom · #6 10-20-2005, 10:30 AM

Yes nickcoumbe it's very hard at first

vette6600 · #7 10-20-2005, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mi2tom

Yes nickcoumbe it's very hard at first

so your saying as you get older, its not as hard? hahahahaha anyways, thanks for the input. anyone else?

fleeeep · #8 10-20-2005, 01:12 PM

Here's the physics behind accurate picking.
If you use a soft pick every time it contacts the string it bends or flexes which degrades it's accuracy, therefore you loose some of it's force when you hit the string.
A hard pick doesn't move as much as it passes through the string therefore transfering all it's speed into the string which allows you to play faster.
So if you use a hard pick and really try to get just the tip of the pick to contact the string you will get the most out of your picking.

Ekim · #9 10-20-2005, 10:12 PM

If you're using heavy attack all the time, how are you going to develop your dynamics?

The Euphor · #10 10-20-2005, 10:40 PM

I don't believe this to be a general rule... I'm not the most accomplished player by any means, but I've been playing many alternate licks many times.

My approach is to use as little effort as possible to make the string sound. I can't see why a heavy attack could possibly make you any faster. I pick much harder when I'm playing blues, due to dynamics.

I won't say it can't work for anyone. Different odd ends, I guess.

mi2tom · #11 10-21-2005, 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vette6600

so your saying as you get older, its not as hard? hahahahaha anyways, thanks for the input. anyone else?

Hmmmm ..... I guess you've wanted a shortcut to perfection is it?

mi2tom · #12 10-21-2005, 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fleeeep

Here's the physics behind accurate picking.
If you use a soft pick every time it contacts the string it bends or flexes which degrades it's accuracy, therefore you loose some of it's force when you hit the string.
A hard pick doesn't move as much as it passes through the string therefore transfering all it's speed into the string which allows you to play faster.
So if you use a hard pick and really try to get just the tip of the pick to contact the string you will get the most out of your picking.

I'll second that

evil_k666 · #13 10-21-2005, 02:06 AM

i found out that a lot of your picking technique comes from the pick you use!
earlier i used dunlop tortex 1.38 mm. they are really sharb and don't bend while playing. i always found it hard to sweep with them or go into heavy shredding...
now i'm using jazz III red and since buying them i constantly get better with everything... i don't think that you need a strong attack when playing, everything should feel smooth and easy, how else would you intend to survive a whole concert when you're arm will tend to hurt sometime... flawless techniques should always come easy and without a lot of movement and force.
a friend of mine is using some kind of think wood plecs... they are really freakn round and thick, have an extra area where you put you fingers and aren't really cheap (15 euro)... but he kicks ass with those, he can play like 16ths at around 210/220 bpm...
all in all: watch for the picks you use!

nickcoumbe · #14 10-21-2005, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vette6600

so your saying as you get older, its not as hard? hahahahaha anyways, thanks for the input. anyone else?

Dude, I am 30, I'm married, I have a 6 month old son. If it was hard I wouldn't remember what it was for.

evilk_666, What are those picks called? I would like to try and find some in the UK.

Rgt_Lover · #15 10-21-2005, 08:59 AM

I am no great shredder, but aren't dynamics really important?

I'm not a crazy fast player, but I change my pick attack depending on what feel I want. Constant hard playing is surely a bit boring, especially to listeners.

In a Vai instructional video he gives detailed info on practising dynamics, and how without them you are lacking any feel.