Help with chords on a mode ?

[megadeth]

hello,

given below is a clip i've recorded and I want to play with modes on this thing.

http://www.kanishkpanwar.com/test.mp3

Bass plays:
C-A-G-F

around 00:41 i play D dorian on the same bassline. though i start with a C note (does that make it C major ?).

Now i want to make a cool ryth. track and bass so that the mode actually reflects the mood. Now i don't know what chords to put at 00:41. also, will the bass keep playing a D note till i solo in D dorian ?

[Drew]

D Dorian = C major.

Your progression looks like it's pretty straightforward C major, no need to go modal, as it's a progression that's very rooted to the Ionian tonality.

(I'm assuming the implied chords are C-Am-G-F, right?)

[megadeth]

i don't know about the chords...
as u can hear that it's only drums and bass making up as a backing track.
i did not understand "it's a progression that's very rooted to the Ionian tonality."

also,
at 00:41 i want to bring out the sound of dorian mode as i am playing that D dorian shape. now i ned to know what chords shud i fit there and what will bass play ?

[megadeth]

i just checked the chords, it is same as u mentioned.

[Devo]

he means that is a very typical chord progression in C major... the progression being I vi V IV.... if that was actually part of a Dorian progression then it would have started on D or perhaps lots of inversions where D is the bass/pedal note or cadences emphasisng D dorian as the root key.... lots of Am to Dm for example... or perhaps a progession that went Dm G/D Am Dm

[The Euphor]

Don't really know what these are called in english, but I'll give it a go.

The primary chords would give you an obvious Dorian mode. In D minor, those would be the ones including the raised sixth from D Dorian.

From Dm, Em, F, G, Am, Bmb5, and C - only Em and G include a B (as Bmb5/diminished chord imply C major tonality).

The Dm is a given as we are in D Dorian.

So to sum it up. Dm - Em - G are the primary Dorian chords in the key of D minor. The rest (F, Am, Bmb5, C) are secondary chords.

In your vamp - C - Am - G - F, only G is a primary chord. So the Dorian feel of the chords would be very weak. That said, you can still play D Dorian, but it will sound like C Ionian.

Why not play the same chords and make it G Dorian?

[Drew]

It's kinda a common misconception at first, when you start getting into them - you don't just write a progression and say, "ok, I'm going to play a mode over this," because that implies that a mode is somehow different from a scale. It's not - it's simply a way of understanding scales as inversions of themselves, so to speak. the same rules apply, in that the chords you are playing over dictate the tonality of the peice, and in turn the scales you choose.

The progression you are soloing over happens to have a strong C Ionian feel to it. Thus, the most logical and "inside" sounding scale to play over the whole thing is straight-up C major. If you were to try to play C Dorian over it, for instance, you'd have a LOT of notes that didn't sound very good. If you wanted to play something in dorian, then you'd need to play over a set of chords that work with the dorian mode - say a sort of bluesy Cm-F-Gm progression.

does this make any more sense? A mode isn't just something can turn off and on - "Ok, now I'm playing modally. Ok, now I'm not" - because modes ae just scales. It just so happens that they can be understood as inversions of a major scale (i.e - dorian is a major scale played from 2nd to 2nd), but at the end of the day, they're just scales, and they're no different from any other grouping of notes, in that you have to choose them to correspond with the chords you're playing.

[nickcoumbe]

Originally Posted by Drew

It's kinda a common misconception at first, when you start getting into them - you don't just write a progression and say, "ok, I'm going to play a mode over this," because that implies that a mode is somehow different from a scale. It's not - it's simply a way of understanding scales as inversions of themselves, so to speak. the same rules apply, in that the chords you are playing over dictate the tonality of the peice, and in turn the scales you choose.

Yep, this is really confusing actually. When I was first getting into modes (10 years ago or so) it took a good teacher a long time to tell me that actually d dorian and e dorian are not really going to work together tonally. Once you start talking about the circle of fifths, and sympathetic minors it all gets really confusing.