Holdsworth alternate picking

[Scali]

Originally Posted by Brosa

Are you familiar with Agharta, a dutch guitar instrumental project?

No, never heard of it.

[Scali]

Originally Posted by shogun

???????? has the definition of alternate picking changed? or are you specifically referring to a 32 note shred run?

The point is not that players don't use alternate picking *at all* (heck, even Holdsworth does some of it)... but rather that legato phrases are the 'trademark' of their playing style. They use legato more often, and in more creative ways than the average guitarist.
Satriani is considered to be pretty much THE legato player in the rock/metal genre.

[Scali]

Originally Posted by CosmicDebris

Sorry, but I dissagree. What I got from him was "Look at me I can play really fast with both hands."

You're kidding me...
Listen to that think called Heavy Prog for example. Or the thing called Ballad (solo part), especially the outro.
The stuff he throws in reminds me of arpeggio's that Jean-Michel Jarre would use. I have never heard any other guitarist play stuff like that.

Sure, he can do alternate picking and regular scale-based stuff aswell, but these fluid arpeggio's are his trademark, and something I've never heard anyone else pull off. They are also the best use of arpeggio's I ever heard on a guitar.

[CosmicDebris]

We will have to agree to disagree.

[Scali]

Originally Posted by CosmicDebris

We will have to agree to disagree.

Not really. We can't disagree on the fact that he has a very original and virtuoso way of playing legato/arpeggio's. I think "He plays really fast with both hands" isn't doing his playing justice.
There are lots of guitarists that can play fast with both hands, but none of them sound anywhere near Hanenberg. You may not like his music, but that's not a reason to disrespect his ability and originality.

[CosmicDebris]

Originally Posted by Scali

Not really. We can't disagree on the fact that he has a very original and virtuoso way of playing legato/arpeggio's. I think "He plays really fast with both hands" isn't doing his playing justice.
There are lots of guitarists that can play fast with both hands, but none of them sound anywhere near Hanenberg. You may not like his music, but that's not a reason to disrespect his ability and originality.

The good thing about free speach is I can like/dislike something and say what I want about it regardless if you agree with me or not. Again I say we should agree to disagree on this subject and leave the petty bickering to someone else. Just my thoughts like them or not.

[Scali]

Originally Posted by CosmicDebris

The good thing about free speach is I can like/dislike something and say what I want about it regardless if you agree with me or not.

The bad thing about free speech is that every idiot can insult and disrespect everyone for no good reason.

[CosmicDebris]

Originally Posted by Scali

The bad thing about free speech is that every idiot can insult and disrespect everyone for no good reason.

[shogun]

when I think of a player that is 'mainly legato' I think of lack of pick attack.. i.e. holdsworth or garsed. though satch does a lot of fast legato runs (which I cannot stand,) he plays a lot of bluesy runs, and picks very hard at times, picking every note. so to me, I think of holdsworth and brett as the kings of legato.

[Wild_Child]

Legato is a funny thing among guitarists. Where guitarists consider it a technique or an approach to the instrument, pretty much every other instrument player consider it a musical phrasing and nothing more.

In this respect, legato has it's place. But I can't handle players that over-use it in the same way I'm not fond of players that insist on picking everything. I feel it undermines the dynamics of their music and limits their capabilities both as a player and a musician.

Thats why I prefer players like Vai or Gilbert. They are more conscious of the dynamics and subtleties that varying techniques can produce. You can play a lick legato, then later play the same thing with another technique and it will give a whole new feel to it. Satch falls more into this category also rather than the 'all legato' group.

Not to say I dislike Holdsworth or Kotzen, they are fine players. But I would be turned off pretty quickly if they were the only thing I could ever listen to.

[Scali]

Originally Posted by Wild_Child

Legato is a funny thing among guitarists. Where guitarists consider it a technique or an approach to the instrument, pretty much every other instrument player consider it a musical phrasing and nothing more.

I agree... If you can't do both, you're limiting the music you will be able to play.
Now some people here say they don't like the harsh sound of a pick attack... But even they would have to agree that some music just asks for a harsher sound.
But you can take it overboard aswell... I don't like John Petrucci because he picks so hard that sometimes you barely hear the notes he plays in faster phrases, you just hear the pick going *krrrrrrrr*.

I really like a player such as Guthrie Govan, who is technically a well-rounded musician, and knows exactly how to apply his technique to a wide variety of music. He knows when to really hit a note, or when to just flow with the legato.
This for example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUZK9dasP8s
And ofcourse the brilliant 'Fives': http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yPEewaalik

[HeavyMetal4Ever]

Originally Posted by Scali

The bad thing about free speech is that every idiot can insult and disrespect everyone for no good reason.

The dude disagreed with you, and you respond like this?

Maybe you could take your own statement to heart?

After re-reading CosmicDebris' posts, I can't see where he disrespects anyone, he just stated his opinion. Is yours the only one that is valid?

As for the "we can't disagree" comment, well, sorry mate , but he did.

Rock on!

[Scali]

Originally Posted by HeavyMetal4Ever

After re-reading CosmicDebris' posts, I can't see where he disrespects anyone, he just stated his opinion. Is yours the only one that is valid?

As I said, "Look at me I can play really fast with both hands." is disrespecting Robbert Hanenberg's talents as a guitar player.

Originally Posted by HeavyMetal4Ever

As for the "we can't disagree" comment, well, sorry mate , but he did.

Yes, and I think he's an idiot because of that. I can express my opinion, right?
I don't see why you have to get involved in this anyway. It blew over already, and the thread was back on topic. Thanks for dragging it off-topic again, and not adding anything of value whatsoever. Shall I express my opinion on you aswell?

[twooos]

Originally Posted by shogun

not sure where you gathered that information from lol. satch uses alt picking every song

Your a joke.

[Wild_Child]

Originally Posted by twooos

Your a joke.

Woah, woah. Steady on here.

Satch DOES use alternate picking in pretty much every song. Perhaps he uses legato where most other players would alternate pick, but he DOES alternate pick and doesnt use legato in the same way Holdsworth does. (i.e. for everything he possibly can)

People seem to ignore the backing to his tracks also. AWMAWY? Alternate picking. Just because a technique isn't being used to play fast, it gets completely overlooked.

Satch's style is more legato than, say Petrucci. But he makes use of different techniques to get the dynamics he wants, so he doesn't play with legato all the time.