Lesson 6: *a' la Mode - Lydian, Mixolydian, Dorian, Aeolian,

[JESTER700]

You list different people for Aeolian & Minor. *Do you distinguish between those 2? *The notes are the same, unless you include melodic minor in the "minor" category. *I don't listen to enough BB to know if that's what you meant.

[uv7bk]

im a bassist

and my bass teacher gave me a sheet with some modes on it for bass.

heres what the sheet said (bassically)

IONIAN (major)
built from  cmaj 7th

C D E F G A B C



DORIAN (minor)

D E F G A B C D



PHRYGIAN (minor)

E F G A B C D E

Ok i think you've got the idea of it.


but some thing he said really made me confused.


ok see how it says Ionian starts with C

and Dorian starts with D

and Phrygian starts with E.

well, he said that you can only play those modes sticking to those
notes. so every time you play dorian you can only play it if say
the rythm guitarist is playing on D.

so you can only play Ionian over a C chord of some sort

and Dorian over D olny.

so he thinks that dorian mode is only stuck on D.

but why do i see A Dorian and E Dorian?

is he taking drugs or something?


or am i not seeing the full picture?


by tha way...
i come from new zealand and the music scene is totally crap.
there is no good music schools here or good teachers to help out
the young mucians like me!

so it sucks im struggling in a sea off bordom
and sports.

[Bar_Hook]

Going bak to what Jem7vwh said,
If you were playing over F#maj vamp like you said; you could I take it modulate between D and E keys but can you play all the say, major modes of each key ontop of it?

[Satch Boogie]

always remeber that this is simple, all you really need to do is play the relevant major scale. Ie if you want to play E Phrygian(sorry, i might not be able to spell it, but i just call it the 3rd scale degree scale, thats the technical side) you would play a C scale starting on the 3rd degree, which is E!!!! So if you want to play E dorian scale, you would play a D scale starting from E, the second degree!
You can look at it this way, C major = c ionion 1st degree
C major = d dorion 2nd degree
C major = e phrygian 3rd degree (this is what i mean from up above!!!!)
then it goes on through the 4 left modes.

[jim777]

Lesson 6

[BluePill]

Originally Posted by jem7vwh

For a basic chart, I'll list modes and artists who frequently use them.

Major: *Alex Lifeson
Minor: *BB King
Pentatonic: *Kirk Hammett
Mixolydian: *Joe Satriani
Lydian: Steve Vai
Harmonic Minor: Yngwie J. Malmsteen
Dorian: *Carlos Santana
Locrian, Phrygian: *Practically nobody
Aeolian: *Flamenco and Spanish players.

These are some basic associations, but in the future we'll discuss how you can use any of these in a number of styles.

Phrygian: Pratically nobody? Not true. -
Aeolian: Flamenco and Spanish players - Half right.

Yngwie uses Harmonic minor a lot but he also uses phrygian dominant, phrygian, melodic minor and Aeolian - which is the same as minor.

I studied Classical- Flamenco in college (Former Music Major) Phrygian and Phrygian dominant were favored in a lot of the Latin type music we studied.

I would put BB king in Pentatonic blues and put Kirk Hammet under
Minor/Aeolian.

Joe Satriani - Phrygian, Lydian,MixoLydian, Aeolian and Harmonic minor
Listen to the tapping part in Satch Boogie.

No offense dude, but after reading some of your postings, I think you need to take some courses and lessons on music theory.

[ThomasBJ]

I've never really understood those modes... Maybe you guys could help me?
Is the A- lydian mode actually the same notes as in the C#minor scale? And if a song is in A-minor would the E-minor scale actually be the Lydian mode for this? Hope I make any sense....

[Andelusion]

Originally Posted by uv7bk

im a bassist

and my bass teacher gave me a sheet with some modes on it for bass.

heres what the sheet said (bassically)

IONIAN (major)
built from  cmaj 7th

C D E F G A B C



DORIAN (minor)

D E F G A B C D



PHRYGIAN (minor)

E F G A B C D E

Ok i think you've got the idea of it.


but some thing he said really made me confused.


ok see how it says Ionian starts with C

and Dorian starts with D

and Phrygian starts with E.

well, he said that you can only play those modes sticking to those
notes. so every time you play dorian you can only play it if say
the rythm guitarist is playing on D.

so you can only play Ionian over a C chord of some sort

and Dorian over D olny.

so he thinks that dorian mode is only stuck on D.

but why do i see A Dorian and E Dorian?

is he taking drugs or something?


or am i not seeing the full picture?


by tha way...
i come from new zealand and the music scene is totally crap.
there is no good music schools here or good teachers to help out
the young mucians like me!

so it sucks im struggling in a sea off bordom
and sports.

You can play in Dorian in any key. So if you're in G Major (G A B C D E F#) you can play in A Dorian (A B C D E F# G) just emphasise the notes which make the mode dorian (the flattened 3rd{C) and 7th degrees{G}).

The rhythm guitarist/keyboardist/doesn't HAVE to be playing the note of the Dorian scale you're playing in for you to be playing in Dorian, but it helps to highlight the overal tonality of the Dorian mode. You can play that Dorian scale over GMajor and if you emphasise the forumla tones it will still sound Dorian.

[Carlo]

if you play A Dorian over Gmajor chord....um your still playing G major. If the chord is Gmaj it will usually sound more musical and tuneful if you emphasize the chord tones of that chord.

the chords can help determine your modes. The more chords involved the more specific and narrow your choices become.

If you play just an A minor chord.....theoretically Dorian, Phrygian and Aeolian will work

-but if it's an Amin Gmajor progression....Dorian and Aeolian will sound strongest.

-but if it's an Amin Gmajor Fmaj progression, then your stuck with Aeolian

-but if it's an Amin Gmajor D7 progression then your left with Dorian

[Andelusion]

I agree with you (Carlo) that certain chords will emphasise and enable the sound of the mode to come out clearer, but i still believe that i'm correct in saying it's possible to still play in A Dorian over a GMajor chord and maintain the Dorian tonality.

Just sticking to my guns

[Carlo]

okie...I'm going to play guitar now and try your way

[hal james]

the modes that existed prior to the tempered scale were kinda reinvented in the late 50's by Miles Davis, although there are some that would argue that point. Basically it goes like this. In order to get a modal sound you have to stress certain chord structures. The lydian sound is achieved by playing a I major to a II major. Example: Play a A major triad with an A in the bass then play a B major triad with an A in the bass, thats the lydian sound in the key of A lydian. Even if you play a E major scale, it will have the A Lydian sound as long as you play the I major to the II major (A major to B major). There are 4 basic families of modal harmony. Lydian (I major to a II major) Mixolydian (I major to a bVII major) Dorian (I minor to a II minor) Phrygian (I minor to a bVII minor)
Ex: Play a A minor with an A in the bass then play a G minor with an A in the bass. You are now in the key of A Phrygian. It works that way for the other modal keys as well. Want to get a all night jam sound like the Allman Brothers, just play the chords E major to D major and use E mixolydian and E major pentatonic as your scales. This system of modal keys works well for film soundtracks. There are several other systems to get you out of the major/minor scale mode trap. One of which being is a system called Common Chord Tone. This system was also used prior to the tempered scale, but where the real action is these days in the the harmony of the overtone series. Basically, the overtone series morphed into several different tone rows. Super locrian, Lydian Dominant, ect, but these days its kinda known as "Altered". These shapes and/or scales and their corresponding arpeggios are commonly used as approach tones. Gotta stop now, I'm tired......

[ThomasBJ]

Originally Posted by ThomasBJ

I've never really understood those modes... Maybe you guys could help me?
Is the A- lydian mode actually the same notes as in the C#minor scale? And if a song is in A-minor would the E-minor scale actually be the Lydian mode for this? Hope I make any sense....

Is there a kind soul who would please answer my question. And if someone already did I'm sorry but I didn't get the answer...

[hal james]

Originally Posted by ThomasBJ

Is there a kind soul who would please answer my question. And if someone already did I'm sorry but I didn't get the answer...

question:Is the A- lydian mode actually the same notes as in the C#minor scale?

Answer: If by c# minor you mean C# aolian (which is the relative minor of E major) then your answer is yes. C# aolian has the same notes as A lydian, hint: both scales have 4 sharps, fcgd.


Question: if a song is in A-minor would the E-minor scale actually be the Lydian mode for this?

Answer: You need to distinguish what kind of minor you are talking about. Each key (based on the tempered scale) has 4 minor modes, dorian, phrygian, aolian, and locrian. For example, in the key of G, you would have A dorian minor and E aolian minor. In the key of F you would have A phrygian minor and E locrian minor.

Suggestion: Learn your key signatures and learn how to spell all of your major scales. Then apply the mode to the corresponding scale tone. Bear in mind, the modes will almost always sound like either a major scale or a pure minor scale until you play certain chord structures as a sound bed.

[ThomasBJ]

Thanks!
Okay I think I get what you say. About what minor i meant... It was just the regular minor! Like C major equals A minor... I'm sorry I haven't learned about all the other minor scales but hey - if you never ask you'll never get any answers. LOL Maybe i sound like a dork right now.
Thomas