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Old 07-16-2002, 11:56 AM
Kev Brigden  is offline
 
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Looking for help with this tricky problem...


To begin with, is the philosophy that if a degree of one scale belongs to another that other scale can be played over the top? IE. If A major is relative major to F#minor, then all of the notes (and their own respective scales) of A major will fit over F#minor??

Okay, I came up with a progression this morning that is in the key of
F#minor... I think it went:

F#m, Amajor, F#m, Emajor, F#m, Amajor, Bminor

Over the top of that I first played B harmonic minor:

B C# D E F# G# A# Bve

Which starting from F is:

F# G# A# B C# D E F#ve - what mode would this be??? Or are modes not applicable when playing in a minor key??? If so, what am I doing???

THEN:

I played E major which is the 5th degree of A major (relative major to F#minor)

E F# G# A B C# D# E which again, starting from F# would be:

F# G# A B C# D# E - what mode would this be???

cheers for any help with this tricky predicament...
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Old 07-16-2002, 01:18 PM
nvn  is offline
 
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Assuming that we accept "rules" (i.e. the patterns out of which conventional music is built) as the standpoint for this discussion, your questions are easily answered.

First off, as you stated, A major and F# minor are related to each other (don't know the exact term in english but it's probably something like "parallell keys"). One manifestation of this is that the "standard" scales here (that'd be A ionian and F# aeolian) consists of the very same notes. That means that when it comes down to pure sound, there's no real technical difference between these two scales. Though; one could say, that what makes something minor or major is the context in which it appears. This context might solely lie within the head of the listener (the eye of the beholder, so to speak), which means you could be playing a straight A ionian scale up and down, and I could get my head full of F# aeolian, B dorian, or whatever.

Anyway, as for the progression you stated; the root notes are strictly contents of the F# aeolian (/A ionian) scale, but you say you played B harmonic minor over it. First, the sequence you listed is not harmonic minor, it's melodic minor (due to the G# instead of G). Second, this combination might result in a quite interesting harmony; the progression runs in F# minor (which makes A a note of central importance, being the minor third), and your soloing runs in B melodic minor over that (including the note A#). This leads to an overall harmonic context where both the minor and the major third is present, and although this in itself might be quite ordinary (for instance, the 7#9 chord), it's not often seen in this situation. Personally I like it though. Using the scale tones of B melodic minor starting from F# results in something my copy of "The Guitar Grimoire" refers to as the "Hindu" mode. Never heard it being mentioned ever though.

Next; the scale tones of E ionian in an F# minor context means you're playing F# dorian (which happens to be my fav minor mode, hehe).

One could say that "minor" is a mode, as well as "major", even though the simple terms "minor" and "major" is unsatisfactory when used in this way (you'd want to know which kind of minor/major). Most often, the mode is used throughout; by this I mean that if you're playing in F# aeolian, it might not be very smooth to suddenly switch to F# dorian - it might smash the entire "body" of the music. Just because the notes E and G# are both included in the F# aeolian scale, it does not mean you can throw any E major scale in there and expect it to fit. The E major mode, as heard in an F# aeolian context, is E mixolydian.

And so on. I could go on and on but I'm afraid I'd get into some real tricky formulations. As I began with saying, this is from the regulated point of view; once you have a feel for the "rules", they might be freely broken. This feel I'm talking about is ear; it's all in your ears, and how you percieve what you hear. Remember; one could talk for days about theory, but the theory only serves to describe, in technical terms, what already exists. Music came first, theory second. Keep it that way, and the music will keep its feel.

Hope I answered some question at least.


/a quite tired swede in a ridiculously hot apartment
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Old 07-16-2002, 02:24 PM
BrianH  is offline
 
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Also when you are talking about modes, even though related modes have the same notes, the important things to remember are

1. The roots are in different places.
2. The half-steps are in different places.

These things along with its context define how they sound. Anyhow it would take a long discussion to properly cover this topic well.
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Old 07-16-2002, 04:12 PM
nvn  is offline
 
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Ah, perhaps I should recommend the aforementioned book. "The Guitar Grimoire - Scales and Modes" (there's one for chords too, I believe). It's basically a HUGE listing of scales, and I think it explains "how it all comes together" quite well. I personally use it to force myself into playing in new patterns though; saves me the time making up all those scales myself. So, Kevin, you might want to check it out.
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Old 07-17-2002, 12:02 PM
Kev Brigden  is offline
 
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Location: Preston, that little island called the UK
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[colour=#FF3300]Thank you both for your swift replies... so basically... what your saying is... it doesnt matter whether or not the original key is minor/major as long as you follow the set proceedure for flattening or sharpening any notes in a particular way you will get a particular mode... I think I get what you mean in my head... but I can't quite put it into words...

BTW: Reading thru the first reply I suddenly realised that E ionian over F# aeolean would be F#Dorian, I shoud have known that!!!

So I was playing in the Hindu mode? cool...

[/colour]
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