Modes Question

[skins345669]

Is a (insert mode) dominant the same as that mode in the dominant key?
Eg:

F Phrygian (root F)
Phrygian dominant = C (Phrygian root C)

What are the differences in terms of b2 b3 etc?

[pfrischmann]

Wow,
I'm going to have to shake the cobwebs out on this one.

If I remember correctly, the short answer is No, thay are not the same.

Phrygian dominant is created by taking a phrygian scale and raising the third degree.
This gives you a 1-3-5-7 chord or a dominant 7th chord, which is where the mane comes from.

I believe this scale is built off of the harmonic minor scale.

I hope that helps..

[skins345669]

So it's a phyrigian with a major 3rd?

or

Based on the harmonic bit, a b7?

[JackButlerGOT]

Phrygian (fifth mode od the natural minor/Aeolian)
1 b2 b3 4 5 b6 b7

Phrygian Dominant (fifth mode of the Harmonic minor)
1 b2 3 4 5 b6 b7

The part that makes it dominant is the presence of a root..a MAJOR third and a FLATTED seventh.

another example:
Lydian Dominant (which is a cool substitute for Mixolydian)
1 2 3 #4 5 6 b7

[skins345669]

So all dominant modes are modes of harmonic as opposed to natural minors? Why has no-one told me this before?

Thanks for your help, guys!

[JackButlerGOT]

not necessarily.. its just that all dominant modes and chords will contain a Major third and a flatted seventh.

[skins345669]

Fair does. I've got a lot of modes learning to do now...

[Homebake]

the way i look at things, i don't even give everything a name.

well, i do, but when i'm playing in a phrygian dominant mode, i just think of it as phrygian with a major 3rd.

it's hard to explain but i see the fretboard in terms of intervals. sure i know all the names and positions inside out, but i keep it pretty loose, if you know what i mean.

say i'm riffing in A minor only. theoretically you can play A blues (blues scale only), A dorian, A phrygian, A aeolian and whatever other scale contains a b3 a b5 and a b7 (depending on what chord's going on...). but i interchange between all those scales without thinking about it, i just see/hear the intervals; "time for some dorian now *hits major 6* now i'm feeling a bit sad *hits minor 6 and b2*" etc etc.

reading back on that now, i'm not sure how relevant it is to this thread, but i'm sure someone will find it interesting...or something...

[skins345669]

I try to do that, but I'm guessing it's taken you a long time to get to that stage?

[Homebake]

Originally Posted by skins345669

I try to do that, but I'm guessing it's taken you a long time to get to that stage?

i've been playing guitar for 3.5 years, i don't know. half of it is ear training and being able to know what you want to hear next and where it is. it's not a task you can sit down and "practice" every day, it's larger than that, it's composed of playing along to stuff, listening to lots of music, memorising shapes/scales/chords etc.

but the point i was trying to make is, handling modes and chords and music in general becomes easier when it all flows together and you don't need to think about it constantly. it all becomes one big mass of intervals lol.

and for the record, my understanding of "dominant" means something with a major 3rd and a b7. i might be wrong, but anything with "dominant" slapped in the name means that. i haven't been proven wrong yet by a chord or a scale yet.

[JackButlerGOT]

Homebake.. you are correct, sir.. 1,3, b7 makes dominant anything.

[skins345669]

Originally Posted by Homebake

. it's not a task you can sit down and "practice" every day, it's larger than that, it's composed of playing along to stuff, listening to lots of music, memorising shapes/scales/chords etc.

Yeah, I don't memorise a lot of scales. I only really know the natural minor and have worked out a way of playing all the modes using the same one pattern (they're all based on the same scale, so I'm sure you musical people can see how that works) but the rest I do a lot. I suppose that's why my scales knowledge is what is now letting me down.

[Homebake]

Originally Posted by skins345669

Yeah, I don't memorise a lot of scales. I only really know the natural minor and have worked out a way of playing all the modes using the same one pattern (they're all based on the same scale, so I'm sure you musical people can see how that works) but the rest I do a lot. I suppose that's why my scales knowledge is what is now letting me down.

yeah, first you need to learn all the modes everywhere. for example, if someone says "play in G major" you can play it everywhere on the fretboard.