More crazy theory experiments!

[GuitarAkuma]

Here's a cool one for you. I was writing a Concerto for Cello and Violin in E Harmonic Minor (as you do) and I wanted the melody in the 3rd movement to really lift above the Cello part which was emphasing a chord sequence thus:

E Minor, Gb Diminished B Major

Obviously the nice Violin part was a cool E Harmonic Minor lilting refrain, then I had a closer look at the key of the piece and came to a rather intriguing discovery, I could play B harmonic minor over the E Harmonic minor chords and it would work, and by goodness it did REALLY well it made the Violin section soar even though it was playing the same interval spacings from E simply transposed to B.

But it gets better I also worked out you can play Gb Harmonic minor over B Harmonic minor which (of course) leads you to 'resolve' back to E Harmonic minor.

Also the use of 'duality chord' in the Harmonic minor key (chord IV) gives you some extremely varied musical directions to take the listener.

Next time on bizzare theory you never bothered to know:

How you can 'legally' play D Major in the key of C Major

[Dantesstudio]

You can "legally" play D in C magor easily. All you have to do is play in D lol. The difference in playing in D magor and playing in C major but actualy playing in D major has to do with your Tonic tone.

Play in D with but instead of leading around and basing your chord structure of the D magor chord, use C. Its called a mode. The mode in this case is Dorian. Dorian is a very common and beautiful mode. There are several other modes as well.

My personal favorite is Mixolydian. Its very Irish (to me atleast). Mixolydian can be accomplished by playing in the key of G but using C major as your tonic.

Now what makes this wierd? In the key of G you have a F#. F# in combination with a C is a tri tone. Tri tones are generaly avoided like the plague. Well if you mix C and G right you get a great sound. If your a Simpsons fan try keeping a C power chord in the bass with an occasional F#. Then play around wiht the C Mixolydian scale ( C D E F# G A B C) until you hear something familiar.

Then you can really go crazy when you mix modes(like you did Amkuma) . My guitar concerto #4 uses C harmonic minor, Eb neopolitan, with a passing tone into a false tonic chord leaving you in a mixed C aeolian and Eb major. And thats only movement one. I plan on recording it soon for a college audition for Belmont relatively soon.

Sorry i ramble sometimes.

[rastachild]

sorry guys, but this is really confusing from a theoretical standpoint. it's great to make discoveries, but some of what is being said is not quite correct.

first, if your underlying harmony is in a certain key center, then you should relate everything you play over it to that key center. in other words, you aren't playing in B harmonic minor over E. You're playing in E roumanian minor, from my best research. while the name is not so important, it is important to realize that the reason why it 'works' is because there are really only a couple of notes that differ from E harmonic minor:

E harmonic minor:
E F# G A B C D#

E roumanian minor:
E F# G A# B C# D

you can see that only the 6th and 7th scale degree differ, so depending on what chords you are using, you could potentially get away with using roumanian minor. chords that do utilize those scale degrees would produce minor 2nd dissonance, which to many is like nails on a chalkboard, but some people can tolerate and even welcome the tension, so maybe that's what you are hearing. however, from a 'legal' theoretical view, it does not quite work in all applications.

Originally Posted by Dantesstudio

Play in D with but instead of leading around and basing your chord structure of the D magor chord, use C. Its called a mode. The mode in this case is Dorian. Dorian is a very common and beautiful mode. There are several other modes as well.

not sure if i completely understand you, but it sounds like you are saying play a D major scale over a C chord. if that's what you are saying, then you are not playing in dorian. as stated above, the key center is determined by the underlying harmony, which you've stated is a C. playing the notes you've indicated (d major) will result in some extreme dissonance because d major has a C#! maybe you meant to play the notes of the C major scale but to start from d and end on d? that still isn't dorian, but it's closer to the truth.

the rest of your explanation is flawed too, but i don't want to pick it apart. i don't mean to be the theory police, as i am the first to say you don't need theory to make good music, but if you are speaking in theoretical terms, you should be correct at least.

[Martyr Machine]

My personal favorite is Mixolydian. Its very Irish (to me atleast). Mixolydian can be accomplished by playing in the key of G but using C major as your tonic.

Now what makes this wierd? In the key of G you have a F#. F# in combination with a C is a tri tone. Tri tones are generaly avoided like the plague. Well if you mix C and G right you get a great sound. If your a Simpsons fan try keeping a C power chord in the bass with an occasional F#. Then play around wiht the C Mixolydian scale ( C D E F# G A B C) until you hear something familiar.

Modal music predates, and is completely separate from, key based music. Mixolydian is not used by playing "in G" over a C major chord, it is constructed by flatting the seventh of the parallel major (C mixolydian, by the way, consists of the notes CDEFGABb, not CDEF#GAB, which is C lydian) The Simpsons theme is in Lydian dominant (C-D-E-F#-G-A-Bb), not lydian.

Play in D with but instead of leading around and basing your chord structure of the D magor chord, use C. Its called a mode.

That isn't really how modal music works. It best to ignore modes until you have a firm grasp on the theory behind the major scale and diatonic harmony. They aren't something you use to spice up your solos whenever you feel like it, they're used during passages that have been specially constructed for a specific mode. They're actually extremely limiting from a harmonic standpoint.

[Dantesstudio]

No yall are right. I am just stupid and said everything wrong. I must have gotten confused. If you really wanna screw yourself up be a guitar player and a sax player. I play tenor and alto sometimes in one of my jazz bands and they arent "C" instruments. They are Eb and Bb. And if you dont understand that then tell me and ill go into more detail.

Ok so lets see if we can figure out what the hell i was talking about.

A scale is seven notes as we all know. They are based around a tonic pitch. The tonic is the note a major scale starts on. In the key of C Major C is your Tonic pitch or note.

When working with modes you have the tonic of one key but the notes of another. Now before you say "wait that doesnt make any since at all i think the kid must be retarted." There is a way to do it properly. Here is a list of modes in "C" .
C major is the same think as C Ionian, D Dorian, E Phrigian, F lydian, G mixolydian, A Aeolian(minor) B Locrian.

This means that if you play a chord progression in lets say F major then, if done correctly, you could create some interesting ideas by playing in the key of C major over the progression. You would have to be careful however. The scale of F Major is F G A Bb C D E, the scale of F Lydian (C Major with a different tonic) is F G A (B) C D E. This means that if an F major progression had a chord with a Bb in it and you were leading in F lydian then you would have to be careful when you used the altered note which is a B.

I hope that made some since. I know it seems that im bad at music but i know what i am doing. I am however, not much of a teacher. I have played at Carnagie Hall in New York City and I have also written two published concertos (5 unpublished) and one musical ( which i would very much like to have published but i cant seem to figure out how to go about doing that.) Anyway, play around dont follow rules. Music theory is the study of tendencies in music. You dont have to end every song with a Plagel cadence or a cadence at all for that matter. Tri tones arent evil. Not all harmonies have to be in thirds. Sorry if i dont make any since. Oh and sorry for rambling.

[MattyCakes]

Originally Posted by Dantesstudio

No yall are right. I am just stupid and said everything wrong. I must have gotten confused. If you really wanna screw yourself up be a guitar player and a sax player. I play tenor and alto sometimes in one of my jazz bands and they arent "C" instruments. They are Eb and Bb. And if you dont understand that then tell me and ill go into more detail.

Ok so lets see if we can figure out what the hell i was talking about.

A scale is seven notes as we all know. They are based around a tonic pitch. The tonic is the note a major scale starts on. In the key of C Major C is your Tonic pitch or note.

When working with modes you have the tonic of one key but the notes of another. Now before you say "wait that doesnt make any since at all i think the kid must be retarted." There is a way to do it properly. Here is a list of modes in "C" .
C major is the same think as C Ionian, D Dorian, E Phrigian, F lydian, G mixolydian, A Aeolian(minor) B Locrian.

This means that if you play a chord progression in lets say F major then, if done correctly, you could create some interesting ideas by playing in the key of C major over the progression. You would have to be careful however. The scale of F Major is F G A Bb C D E, the scale of F Lydian (C Major with a different tonic) is F G A (B) C D E. This means that if an F major progression had a chord with a Bb in it and you were leading in F lydian then you would have to be careful when you used the altered note which is a B.

I hope that made some since. I know it seems that im bad at music but i know what i am doing. I am however, not much of a teacher. I have played at Carnagie Hall in New York City and I have also written two published concertos (5 unpublished) and one musical ( which i would very much like to have published but i cant seem to figure out how to go about doing that.) Anyway, play around dont follow rules. Music theory is the study of tendencies in music. You dont have to end every song with a Plagel cadence or a cadence at all for that matter. Tri tones arent evil. Not all harmonies have to be in thirds. Sorry if i dont make any since. Oh and sorry for rambling.

im gonna delete this post, dont wanna start a flame war