Playing 18 Years - Can't Read music!

[Fentonio1978]

Hi All,

I have a slight dilemma. I've been playing the gutar for approx 18 years and I am technically quite proficient. However, I want to get a lot better and I want to be a much better musician. The problem is I am not a beginner at all and all books assume that as you progress you are learning to read music and music theory.

I need some guidance. I want to learn to read music and learn all about the modes and different techniques etc. Have any of you guys ever been in the same position and have found a good book / approach to rectify this situation?

Any guidance at all would help. I have a Jem 7VWH, Boss GT8 and a couple of Fender amps and am into Nuno's choons, Vai, Satch etc but in a nutshell just really enjoy good guitar.

Many thanks guys,
Dave

[HDS]

This was me 10 years ago. I took music theory 3 years in college got A's and it was very hard to get over playing what was on paper over what i heard in my head. Take the guitar away and I could write some really techy stuff but put the guitar back in my hands and I look like a blindman reading a eye chart. I could do it but it was very slow. Something I never got over.

I heard there is a Suzuki method that can help fix this.

[WMerkert]

I'm playing for 30 years and i have the same problem, but it doesn't matter for me, i am an "ear player". Take lessons, that should solve your problem.

[jay ratkowski]

I started playing the bass and learned to read music as I learned to play and ended up being capable, but not great, at sight reading the bass clef. Switch to guitar and I kind of lost interest in learning all over again. It's not easy to combine something you are capable of (playing the guitar) with something you are a novice at (reading music for guitar). There's really no way to jump right into complex material though, so you really just have to fight through the slow pace for a while. I suppose the hope is that you can pick it up rather quickly so the time period of playing "Mary Had a Little Lamb" does not go on for too long.

[jb4674]

I too can't read music but it makes no difference to me. Although I would like to learn to, it's quite hard to do IMO. I took a few guitar classes in college and had a very difficult time trying to learn how to read...music, that is

You know, we're beginning to sound like we're in an AA meeting or something...
Hello, my name is Jimmy and I can't read music...

Jimmy

[GilkyBear]

I would say that reading music is not the solution to your problem, it will probably only compound the problem as it will be like learning all over again. Instead, focus on learning every note on the fretboard in every position. Once you are very (VERY) good at this, it will be very easy to apply the theory to your playing. Trying to sight read may just add unnecessary confusion to your ultimate goal.

[DEADTUNES666]

Originally Posted by GilkyBear

I would say that reading music is not the solution to your problem, it will probably only compound the problem as it will be like learning all over again. Instead, focus on learning every note on the fretboard in every position. Once you are very (VERY) good at this, it will be very easy to apply the theory to your playing. Trying to sight read may just add unnecessary confusion to your ultimate goal.

Could be right. Can't teach an old dog new tricks. I can read but real slooooowly, my business partner graduated Berklee 92 sight reads rings around me, it used to piss me off. What takes him 6 minutes to go through perfectly takes me a few hours to do with a fair amount of mistakes. Usually a day gets it for me...

Just playing together is awesome I hang right in there with him. It's when he starts writing sh!t out, and throws a couple sheets in front of me.

Definitely learning the rudiments of reading will benefit you. Just in the fact that you'll recognize placement of notes. But at this point it might be too late, to get yourself to a sight reading mode. When we get older we tend to be stuck in our ways...Good Luck

[etfmusic]

Apart from Steve and Satch, not too many of my idols have a solid music educated background. And I am reffering to Angus, Jimmy, Yngwie and the list goes on. (This makes me feel good as I am a self taught player)
I don't imply that being educated makes you sterile in rock; on the contrary: Dream Theater, Lukather, they know how to write (compose by ear and on paper) memorable stuff.
Finding a good teacher (meaning: teach you, what you need to improve, not what you-or I- think or what he knows) will save you a lot of hussle.

[kotornut]

I don't think reading music will make you a better guitarist, just a more understanding and well educated musician. It could improve many things, yet it won't make your fingers or hands any better.

[varador]

HAHAHAHAHAHA YOU LOSERS CAN'T READ MUSIC HAHAHAHA

But seriously, I don't think it's such a big deal on the guitar. Other stringed instruments (violin, cello, etc.) do not use tabs, but it's not just because they're "classical" instruments that would require a "classical" method of reading music. The violin family uses fewer strings than the guitar, hence, there are fewer positions to play a note of the same pitch on, meaning it's easier to figure out where to play a note when using stave notation than it would be on the guitar. And... well... the violin family doesn't have any frets, so there can't be tabs anyway

The piano uses stave notation all the way, but it's easy to find and play a note simply because of the consistent layout of the keys. I guess you could say the same about the guitar and its frets, but I wouldn't agree, as each string starts with a different tuning - fretting the same frets on different strings does not give you two notes of identical pitch. This is unlike the piano, where hitting a key in the same position will give you the same pitch, albeit one octave higher/lower.

What about the harp, you say? Well, I just read up on wikipedia and it says that fingerings are noted when playing the harp, which takes all of the problems out of the equation, as the strings aren't fretted on a harp (both hands are plucking).

I've had the fortune of wanting to play clarinet from an early age and having parents that encouraged my musical efforts. I had lessons since day one, and so learning to read music at age five was probably much easier than it would be for you when you've been playing music for as long as I've been alive.

Playing the clarinet has been great for me as a musician... but the reasons are far from only being "oh, it taught me to read music." What made it awesome was the ability to transfer directly to the saxophone family (the two instrument families have similar mouthpieces) and adapt to a different set of fingerings for the same notes (the sax has similar fingerings as the clarinet but the written notes correspond somewhat differently to said fingerings). I've played up and down the saxophone family of instruments, playing from the baritone saxophone (read: the bass in a saxophone section) in high school jazz ensembles, to the alto sax in a jazz combo, to a soprano sax on one special occasion where no other instrument was at hand (I nailed and outjammed my contemporaries too at that moment too, was awesome considering I had never played the soprano sax before ). It's taught me to come to terms with the role of each instrument in a band, to accept it and to maximize that potential. Meaning if I play bass in a rock band, I'm not going to try and pull off some leads, that's not my musical philosophy on the role of the bass in the band (however, there are always some awesome exceptions and opportunities for a bass solo... Victor Wooten anyone?)

Also, having played so many musical roles in band context whilst playing through the sax family gave me a lot of insight into writing music for your regular rhythm + lead guitar + bass rock band. For example, when writing bass lines I draw upon what my role was when I played baritone sax in a sax section. For rhythm guitar, I draw upon what I played when I was, say, a 2nd or 3rd clarinet, or 2nd or 3rd alto sax (in a concert band that's the "lower grouping" of clarinets which have a role similar to that of rhythm guitar in rock, as they play in lower keys and play more flowing, background passages with longer notes + any rhythmic elements or chords). For lead guitar I draw upon what I've accomplished as a 1st clarinet (some of which I'm quite proud of .

Two years ago when starting out on the guitar I was a bit of an anti-tab snob, I meaning I felt like "how can you call yourself a musician when you can't read music, *******?" But the more people I've played with, the more I realize that, more often than not, people just can't really read music, but you know what? That doesn't determine your sense of musicality, your musical feel, your ability to express emotion through music. I've played in honor bands next to all kinds of clarinetists (I hated being the only white guy in 1st clarinet surrounded by nothing but Asians) and you can bet your ass they were all classically trained, I had to ****ing bust my ass to make it into them honor bands too. Anyway, in playing alongside a homogeneous group of classically trained musicians, and more specifically clarinetists, I learned that musical feel is not necessarily something that comes with classical training - there were as many girls, guys, blacks, whites, Asians, Europeans, Americans, whatever that had what I would consider to be good musical feel as those who didn't. One thing I have quite consistently noted in clarinetists from varying cultures is that the Asians are particularly technical, but not always strong in the feel department. Case in point: compare the clarinet solos on the same pieces of music (K.622 Mozart's famous clarinet concerto, first movement).

1 (Sharon Kam, awesome feel):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xr3aB4v8hXI

2 (Martin Frost, lots of variations in feeling as well by altering not only rhythm but also actual notes that should be played):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6iG2f5KJKU

3 (this Asian kid plays some runs too fast for my taste and his playing feels less "alive" than the above two interpretations, also, he's supported by a mediocre orchestra)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0KH_Zst6_I

Sure, perhaps the videos are not faithful, but I hope you see my point - that musical feel is more important in making good music than really mastering any technical part of it.

And with this, I will call it a day, as it is 3AM and this is sloppily written and I shall not torture you any further.

[Meedlyx10]

Whether or not you should be able to read music (and to what extent) should be determined by what your goals are. If you are playing in an established cover band (i.e. you know all the tunes, same arrangements each time, etc.), only doing original stuff, or only play as a hobby it's not a big deal. For a working guitarist who teaches, plays classical gutiar, does any hired gigs, session work, etc. it's one of the most important skills you can have. The amount of work you'll get increases exponentially. It helps on a lot of different levels...it really forces you to know your fretboard too. 99% of guitarists suck at sight reading or can't do it at all, most of the remaining 1% are mediocre at best. Believe me, it gives you a HUGE advantage over the competition.

[gu1tar]

Originally Posted by Fentonio1978

I have a slight dilemma. I've been playing the gutar for approx 18 years and I am technically quite proficient. However, I want to get a lot better and I want to be a much better musician. The problem is I am not a beginner at all and all books assume that as you progress you are learning to read music and music theory.

I need some guidance. I want to learn to read music and learn all about the modes and different techniques etc. Have any of you guys ever been in the same position and have found a good book / approach to rectify this situation?
Dave

I'm with you Dave, I never had any real need to read music for guitar but I decided the other day to try and teach myself piano and gosh darn it if there isn't any tab for that so I'm having to learn to read music. Back in the day when I first took lessons, my guitar teacher wanted to teach me to read out of an Alfred's book because that is what he taught from but, as an older student, I opted to learn Eruption and things like that instead of learning Camptown Races and Claire de Lune out of Alfred's.

It's never too late to learn though - if you *want* to. In fact anyone who says they can't read music is delusional. Anyone can look at what each note on the line is and, using a reference if necessary, figure out which note(s)/chord it is. Now doing it quickly and up to tempo is a different story.

I'm studying more music theory as well and in the little time that I've done it, a few things clicked and made sense right away. But you certainly don't need to read music or know theory to enjoy playing the guitar or any music for that matter.

As far as modes, the Guitar Grimoire - Scales and Modes shows the scales and modes. For general theory the Doug Doppler (Joe Satriani's student and who Joe let take over his teaching) DVD available on the bay is not bad. I'm currently doing research to find some good theory books myself.

[pianistturnedguitarist]

haahha my problem is that i don't know where the notes are on the fret board xD
the easiest thing to do is find a scale book and go back to basics and play like nursery rhyme songs and build your foundation from there, thats what iam doing and its working out pretty well eventually you ll get to that level where you can just look and press it will take a lot of work mind you, but if you have a passion for it than it will come along easy especially if your technique is as pro as you say it is.

[Rachmaninoff]

If you read music, you automatically learn a lot of different things.
Take lessons, read tutorials, search for anything on Google...
But learn this.

[Ad_Astra]

I'm selftaught. Played guitar for about 15 years now. Before that I was forced to take piano lessons (lol). And since that I've been familiar with musical notation. And it's helped me a lot. A lot easier to write down your own stuff etc. I'm quite familiar with chordal theory as well, but my weak points are modes. Don't even think I'd be any better player if I could tell someone that first on the solo I go from E phrygian to A aeolian and then from G dim arpeggio to Bb locrian.

Reading music is quite relative. I mean, when are you fast? Take this picture (http://germaniaclub.homestead.com/fi...een_musik.jpg). Takes 2 seconds to play the first staff, 8 seconds for the third one and the second row would be the hardest but not that difficult. I mean for me. Do you need to see-and-play any harder stuff than that? Don't think so. I've managed so far =)