Scales & Modes

[eviltwin]

Originally Posted by Dee

There is no reason to learn it if you don't care and you can get by just fine without it. I am living proof. Jimi Hendrix is living proof!

This is only partially true, Hendrix managed fine for a while, he was years ahead of most people. However, Hendrix knew he heard stuff in his head that he couldn't access on the guitar (even though he tried everything, from unconventional playing styles to adopting innovations in technology) He would still hit a wall, because of a lack of proper theoretical musical knowledge.

For his last -unfinished- project he tried to address this by hooking up with Gill Evans (jazz composer/arranger/bandleader) he was also studying classical music. Side-note: his apartment was next door to Händel's old place in London

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handel_House_Museum

[Batchimp RG]

Originally Posted by eviltwin

Side-note: his apartment was next door to Händel's old place in London

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handel_House_Museum

I know it well. I have left a flower when they placed the blue plack on the outside

[DavyH]

Originally Posted by Dee

Jimi Hendrix is living proof!

I don't know how to break this to you Dee, but.....

[rickcard71]

I am 36 and I starting playing between 12 & 15 (I forget exactly), but I am finally starting to learn and understand it! Because, I have a teacher that knows how to teach theory! It is amazing that there are different approaches to musical theory (MT) and musical theory for guitar (MTFG). MTFG is still musical theory but the approach can be different. I had a professional jazz guitarist with a degree in music and now he is the top musical director for a college near where I live. He IS not a good teacher, I never understood theory by him. I now have a great teacher with a degree but he knows to approach it so it is easy to understand and he gears it towards guitar, however, he still transends all MT. I am finally learning keys of music, different scales, modes, minor major, diminished, EVERYTHING! I am so happy I found this guy!!! I also had other teachers that would show me a scale and blaze over the notes, that when I would ask a question about staying in key, that's where they would lose me and not know how to explain or teach it, this guy is the Einstein of guitar teaching!

So you have to find someone that can teach it or books that are easy to understand.

[shogun]

Originally Posted by Dee

That's not true. I don't really feel the need to learn tons of theory because I feel I can express myself perfectly well without it. There is no right or wrong in music. Ever. Does the knowledge you have so far allow you to express yourself? If that's a yes, it's all good.

Music = an artform, and art = expression.

Q: Did Hendrix need to know tons of theory? A: No. And he's probably THE most respected guitarist who ever lived.
Q: How many chords did Marc Bolan know? A: Seven. And he was a very successful musician.

You see, it isn't vital, and you have no right to throw expletive laden attacks at anyone for not knowing or not being interested.

Musical fascism, anyone?

PS: I am interested to hear the music you have been making, Martyr Machine, and how you've put your theory to good use. I expect you to be an absolutely exceptional guitar player. Don't let me down, now.

come on man, you are being a dink to Martyr.. You do not NEED theory to be a moderately good guitar player, all you need is a good ear.. if you don't have a good ear, you are screwed.. However, most people do not learn theory because they are TOO LAZY.. If you do not understand what you are playing, you are very limited.. sorry, but it is the truth. Different gigging situations require different levels of musicianship, but if you can't commit the time to learn even basic theory, to the extent of knowing the notes on your fretboard, and learning some basic scales and their modes... well, thats laughable..

your comment "I expect you to be an absolutely exceptional guitar player. Don't let me down, now." is classless, and only makes you look foolish

[540s]

Here's my prespective on the subect & what is for me one of the most simple ways of learning scales & modes etc...

I've been playing since the ripe old age of 4 which was back in 1973. Up until about 3 years ago I neglected all but the basic theory for many of the reasons previously mentioned in this thread... Essentially it was not a necessity for me & I was quite comfortable with my skill level & the limited theory I did understand. Heck, what rock n roll rebel needs book smarts like that right?

For whatever reason a few years ago I decided I'd like to learn a bit more theory & I have to say the only thing I regret about my playing in all these years was NOT getting into theory much earlier. There is really NO negative aspect of it other than the time that needs to be put in to learn & the frustration when that learning is difficult. Getting comfortable with modes has really improved my improvisation skills... which I always considered my strongest point. Though I am rarely conciously thinking of it, it has improved my playing substantially in just about all area's & made (*for me at least) learning new things quite a bit easier & quicker also. The time invested in theory has paid me back in that I can do more in less time & have a better understanding of what's going on.

One of the best methods of learning & understanding modes that I've seen came from Joe Satriani... I can sit here & explain it... I started to type away at it but check out this video... it will do more for any interested than my words could do. For me this has made it possible for me to get into theory & make it feel a lot less like "work" It actually became an enjoyable challenge as opposed to a daunting task or chore.

This is part one of the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTQolymKmDA

[kool_am_i]

Buy all the MI books they explain it really good and give good examples.

[rob777vdy]

unless you want to write your own music i cant see the point of learning modes n scales.i just play scales for warm ups and for speed exersise,however it is important you know what key you are playing in,just depends on where you want to go with your guitar playing.when i first started i just wanted to play all my fav songs,i can read tab and can play just about any song.all that mode stuff and theory just puts my head in the bin tooooooo complicated for me.

[shogun]

Originally Posted by ibanez777vbk

unless you want to write your own music i cant see the point of learning modes n scales.

lol...

[ColinMmmmm]

Originally Posted by Dee

I would possibly say "play the scale through once" and then I'd pick it up on the spot. Most of the time I wouldn't have to ask you to show me the notes, I'd just hear the intervals and pick it up instantly. I have perfect and relative pitch. I certainly wouldn't be standing there like a lemon.

I would be . . . having perfect and relative pitch is worth far more than learning theory. I always feel lost when jamming with people - I can usually pick out a few sweet notes to play, but I can play better than I actually do, cause I'm worried about hitting the wrong note. I think learning some theory would help in my situation . . . (as most tunes are pretty simple . . )

[OLIE_ROCKS_THE_80'S]

I firmly believe that a marriage of the 2 schools of thought is the way to go for a musician, in other words "learn theory but don't lose your soul/feeling"

[Martyr Machine]

Originally Posted by OLIE_ROCKS_THE_80'S

I firmly believe that a marriage of the 2 schools of thought is the way to go for a musician, in other words "learn theory but don't lose your soul/feeling"

I object to your implying that they are different schools of thought. All music theory does is allow you to communicate with other musicians and explain why musical concepts sound the way they do. If your music has no "feeling" (feeling is not an inherent property of music anyway), you have problems entirely unrelated to music theory.

[OLIE_ROCKS_THE_80'S]

Originally Posted by Martyr Machine

I object to your implying that they are different schools of thought. All music theory does is allow you to communicate with other musicians and explain why musical concepts sound the way they do. If your music has no "feeling" (feeling is not an inherent property of music anyway), you have problems entirely unrelated to music theory.

What are you talking about? I am not implying I am asserting that there are 2 schools of thought as clearly demonstrated in this thread!
I for one, believe that theory enables you to enhance your playing and enjoyment of music so no need to preach to the quire! however, you should not get caught up in theory so much that you forget about feel/spontaneity/freshness. As good a musician Petrucci is, he has been accused of being a sterile player (which I disagree) just because he is a schooled musician.

[CosmicDebris]

[rob777vdy]

Originally Posted by shogun

lol...

lol ?????.theory is a great thing to know ie improvising working songs out ect,but its not the end of the world if you dont know any theory,theory takes the enjoyment out of guitar playing for me.