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Old 04-08-2004, 05:57 PM
SilverSurfer2  is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
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when is a good time to use diminished type chords??


I know in music there are no rules, but there is a good time and place for everything right??

Well, as most music we hear don't overuse chords like diminished/flatted5ths/minormajor etc..... in a given song.........there must be some good places to use these type of chords.

Does anyone know of a starting point as to how to figure out where these chords would best fit in a chord progression??? I'm also asking about altered chords.....often used in jazz also.

when i look at jazz music and play some chord progressions.........it all seems to fit so nicely and they sound really cool even though they sound wierd. And jazz uses pretty much 7th's and beyond type chords(9ths, 11ths, 13ths, 7/6's, altered etc.)......

Is there a "little rule" that someone can share when it comes to using these type of chords and making them sound like they fit???
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Old 04-08-2004, 06:23 PM
JESTER700  is offline
 
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Very good for passing chords, as a start. Since the b5 resolves quickly, it won't sound too wierd.
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Old 04-08-2004, 09:16 PM
Kemono  is offline
 
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As secondary or primary dominant chords.

vii in A Minor is G#º
vii/V in A minor is D#º

As substitutes/upper structures for dominant chords:
A dim 7 chord can be used a major third above (or below, or a half step above) a dominant chord.

V in G maj is D. a major 3rd above D is F#. You can also use D#º going to G. D#º is enharmonically just the third inversion of F# dim.
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Old 05-07-2004, 10:21 PM
Drew  is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
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let's try that again, in English.

If yuou'll notice, there's only one note different between a V7 chord and a diminished 7th chord a half step above it, in a given key- in e, for example, a B7 contains B, D#, F, and Ab, while a Cdim7 contains the same last three pitches, but with a C instead of a B. Suggestion? Sub a Cdim7 for a B7. Enharmonically, it's a B7b9, but a diminished is a diminished. and, any inversion of a diminished chord (a diminished chord in it;s own right, as every note in a dim chord is the same intgerval apart- you can slide a dim grip up and down the neck without changing a thing, and be playing iversions) can be subbed in for this- Cdim7, D#dim7, Fdim7, and Abdim7 are all good substitutions for a Bdim7.

Also, a half-step below a major or harmonic minor key's root, you'll find a diminished chord. Speaking on a strictly technical level, you'll find that this is simply a substitution for a V chord, inverted- in the above example, i's the D#- but if you harmonize the scale, tht;s what you build over the 7th degree,and depending on how you harmonize it, you can suggest this harmonically, rather than the V.

Taking another step back, anywhere you can play a M7 chord, you can play a dim7 a half step above. For example, take a secondary dominant- in the jazz world, in a minor blues, it's not uncommon to go from a minor i, briefly into a minor iv, and then back to the i, like you would in a SRV-ish swing blues, before going to the iv. But, before hitting the iv, you'd quickly hit a I7, or a "secondary dominant"- a chord functioning as the dominant chord of a chord that isn;t the primary key center- this is a common way of going utside" while still sounding consonant. So, instead of going Am-Dm-Am-A7- and into Dm, you could go Am-Dm-Am-Bbdim7.

This is just scratching the surface, of course... just play them a lot and wait till they sound natural.

-D
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