anyone think i could make a fretless guitar

ibanezrg520kid · #1 10-12-2005, 08:12 PM

In my guitar class today we were watching the G3 video and when Vai started playing his tripple neck i fell in love with the fretless neck on it. I was talking to my teacher and he thinks i could make one. I'm going to get a cheap guitar and try it on that. I'm going to defret it and put a sustainer in...any bridge pick up reccomondations? If all goes well and i learn how to set it up so it works well then i'm going to get a better guitar and make a fretless rg with a wizard 2 neck and a fernandes sustainer!! Any tips? Please no bashing on my idea....i'm already going into this knowing there is a good chance I might just ruin a neck, but its worth a try.

AlexBLA · #2 10-12-2005, 08:29 PM

evo or evo2... you could also replace the fretboard. im sure u can get a non fretted blank fretboard

David McCarroll · #3 10-12-2005, 09:47 PM

The late great Jaco Pastorius (one of the best jazz bass players ever, and one of the first real fretless bass players) had two ancient Fender Jazz basses which he simply removed the frets from, filled the holes with wood filler and epoxied the fingerboard. - if you took this approach, you could use contrasting coloured filler for the fret slots, and if you ever decided to convert the guitar back to fretted, it would simply be a matter of sawing out the filler with a good fret saw and refretting the neck.

There is a school of thought that the tangs of the frets act as little "wedges" which push the neck into a reverse bow against the strings, and contribute to the stiffness of the neck (there used to be swathes of info about this subject on Stewart MacDonald's luthier's supplies website) - if you were concerned by this, another approach (which again I have seen done on Basses) would be to grind the frets level with the fingerboard on a flat bed linisher - pretty hard to reverse!

Good luck with the project!

guitarshredder7 · #4 10-12-2005, 09:56 PM

yes yes

ibanezrg520kid · #5 10-12-2005, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David McCarroll

The late great Jaco Pastorius (one of the best jazz bass players ever, and one of the first real fretless bass players) had two ancient Fender Jazz basses which he simply removed the frets from, filled the holes with wood filler and epoxied the fingerboard. - if you took this approach, you could use contrasting coloured filler for the fret slots, and if you ever decided to convert the guitar back to fretted, it would simply be a matter of sawing out the filler with a good fret saw and refretting the neck.

There is a school of thought that the tangs of the frets act as little "wedges" which push the neck into a reverse bow against the strings, and contribute to the stiffness of the neck (there used to be swathes of info about this subject on Stewart MacDonald's luthier's supplies website) - if you were concerned by this, another approach (which again I have seen done on Basses) would be to grind the frets level with the fingerboard on a flat bed linisher - pretty hard to reverse!

Good luck with the project!

So are you saying another approach is to just grind done the current frets smooth...that sounds logical, but what is a flat bed linisher? so do you think i would have any neck "durability" problems if i attempt this? Thanks alot!!

Yeah I own a cheap carlo robelli fretless bass...it plays really well when set up good! I actually chose it over a $600 peavy cause it played better. thanks guys!

**elcid** · #6 10-12-2005, 10:54 PM

Fretless guitars are cool, of course you could just learn to play slide.

David McCarroll · #7 10-12-2005, 11:32 PM

A flat bed linisher is basically a large belt sander with a flet steel "bed" that the sandpaper runs over, so all you need to do is fire the beast up, gently lower the neck frets down onto the sandpaper and slowly grind the protruding parts of the frets level with the wood of the board - the thing to be ultra careful about is not changing the radius of the fingerboard by oversanding. A couple of coats of polyurethane snaded flat may help, but I'd try the sound of the unfinished 'board first.

I would think this approach would give you the least of all issues with neck stability - the only problem, as I said earlier is that it is not easy to reverse, although you should be able to pick up a slotted 25.5" fingerboard blank from a good luthier's supply house if you ever did want to revert to the world of frets - back to the linisher and grind off the entire fretboard!

BTW, Andy Summers from the Police and Pat Metheny are also fretless guitar players - Pat plays some really nice stuff on "Imaginary Day".

ibanezrg520kid · #8 10-13-2005, 01:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elcid

Fretless guitars are cool, of course you could just learn to play slide.

i can already do that...besides they sound alot different.

ibanezrg520kid · #9 10-13-2005, 01:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David McCarroll

A flat bed linisher is basically a large belt sander with a flet steel "bed" that the sandpaper runs over, so all you need to do is fire the beast up, gently lower the neck frets down onto the sandpaper and slowly grind the protruding parts of the frets level with the wood of the board - the thing to be ultra careful about is not changing the radius of the fingerboard by oversanding. A couple of coats of polyurethane snaded flat may help, but I'd try the sound of the unfinished 'board first.

I would think this approach would give you the least of all issues with neck stability - the only problem, as I said earlier is that it is not easy to reverse, although you should be able to pick up a slotted 25.5" fingerboard blank from a good luthier's supply house if you ever did want to revert to the world of frets - back to the linisher and grind off the entire fretboard!

BTW, Andy Summers from the Police and Pat Metheny are also fretless guitar players - Pat plays some really nice stuff on "Imaginary Day".

Oh thanks alot...this means i have the tools i need!!! Yeah i don't plan on refretting it ever so i'm not worried about it being hard to reverse. I'm just trying to decided what rg body i should use and try to find a wizard 2 for the project.

I have another question now. Once the fret board is done won't i have to file, or something, down the nut or in this case the metal on the locking tuners so that the action isn't really high. Or should i leave it. I will try it with out messing with that first but i'm think the action will prolly be horrible. Whats you opinion on that cause i'm just trying to look at ever aspect so i don't spend money and then mess up cause i wasn't thinking about everything. Thanks!

David McCarroll · #10 10-13-2005, 02:21 AM

Erm, well that will be an issue - I don't think you will be able to file down the nut at all, they're pretty hard, and by attempting to file the top of the nut you'll probably end up with buzzes and overtones all over the place.

So, one of a couple of solutions, depending on the tools you have available to you, how brave you are, and how lucky:

1) Ibanez normally shim the nuts up to the action they foist upon you (usually too high) - if you are lucky, removing the shims will get the nut down to about where you want it.

2) Grind the bottom face of the locking nut very carefully on the linisher - you probably want to think up a jig of some kind to keep the nut flat and level as you do this.

3) Using a router, or a milling machine if you have access to one, route the nut slot in the actual neck a little deeper.

Of course the other thing you could do is buy, say a sheet of ebony or rosewood veneer (usually .6mm thick) and glue that over the existing fretboard?

Grist for the mill, eh?

dex · #11 10-13-2005, 06:30 AM

The least expensive way would be to try and get one of them Kramers with Infinity Sustainer (MusicYo had them new for $399) or a Jackson DK-2S, remove the frets (look for a tutorial on Projectguitar.com) and stick some kind of filler with contrasting colour.
Steve's fretless neck was done that way.
Haydn (monkeboy) who posts here had it done on a Kramer and there was a thread about it but I can't find it.
Here's some pictures of us having a go at the last jam we had.
Hopefully he'll chime in with some more info.

ilia

pawel · #12 10-13-2005, 07:12 AM

Fretless guitars are awesome, I played a couple of Godins (glissentar and the fretless nyring) and it was a lot of good fun. Of course an electric with a sustainer (or a glass fretboard like the Vigier) is a better idea. What dex suggests is probably the simplest solution.

ibanezrg520kid · #13 10-13-2005, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David McCarroll

Erm, well that will be an issue - I don't think you will be able to file down the nut at all, they're pretty hard, and by attempting to file the top of the nut you'll probably end up with buzzes and overtones all over the place.

So, one of a couple of solutions, depending on the tools you have available to you, how brave you are, and how lucky:

1) Ibanez normally shim the nuts up to the action they foist upon you (usually too high) - if you are lucky, removing the shims will get the nut down to about where you want it.

2) Grind the bottom face of the locking nut very carefully on the linisher - you probably want to think up a jig of some kind to keep the nut flat and level as you do this.

3) Using a router, or a milling machine if you have access to one, route the nut slot in the actual neck a little deeper.

Of course the other thing you could do is buy, say a sheet of ebony or rosewood veneer (usually .6mm thick) and glue that over the existing fretboard?

Grist for the mill, eh?

Yeah i have access to a milling machine, but i was thinking of just getting a triangular metal file to nicely grind away the nut, but i was just thinking about that idea of taking off the nut and doing all the work on the bottom of it.

Know any where could get rosewood finger boards???

ibanezrg520kid · #14 10-13-2005, 10:16 PM

i'm still not sure what body i will use...i'm looking at an s serise, but will probably get an rg. I am going to build it by parts and i was wondering if any if any of you guys know where i can get a floyd for cheap? New ones on **** are like 200-300 bucks...i'm not sure what model i want yet. I'm just trying to see my options so if anyone has info on that i would appreciate it!! My dad are just trying to get the parts together and trying to find out how much i'm going to have to spend. Also does anyone know or have a cheap or used sustainer for sale? thanks!