Can Vai play jazz?

[Dee]

Originally Posted by kotornut

Anyways, I'm not protecting Vai I just hate the jazz vs. metal or any genre mentality. I thought you were going to say stuff like "so and so sucks because he's not fusion." I hate that. I agree, some of the best musicians are jazz players, but I don't think that jazz makes them automatically versatile. In my opinion fusion players of any instrument are often very stagnate.

Vai is my least favorite guitar virtuoso to be honest. I'm not into his stuff a few songs here and there, so this isn't a defense.


And you might be suprised by my physical abilities . You just never know what someone is really like. I could be a light heavywieght MMA champion for all you know. I mean I do live in Japan, and I ain't here 'cause I like Manga and Anime. You never know.

It's OK man, I'm just kidding with you. I am a HUGE boxing fan though (not physically huge!). Been following it since the 70's and I know a few tricks, so watch out!

Seriously though. I have a bit of an obsession with Japan. I have never been there but I intend to go one day when I can afford to. I love the people and I love the music (J-Fusion in particular).

I need to ask you something, actually. I am trying to get hold of a DVD of one of my favourite Japanese bands. It's unavailable over here. Here is the link:

http://www.amazon.co.jp/TRIX-LIVE-To.../dp/B000XR2ODQ

1: Do you have an Amazon.jp account?
2: How much does this work out at in GBP or USD?
3: Is shipping to England expensive?
4: Am I being cheeky by asking for your help?

I could buy this as an import from certain online stores in America but they are asking waaaay too much for it.

[kotornut]

Originally Posted by DEADTUNES666

Come on yes it is...deep down you know this to be true, search your feelings

Actually, I think classical is the pinnacle (orchestral not just guitar). But it's all entertainment is too subjective.

[kotornut]

Originally Posted by Dee

It's OK man, I'm just kidding with you. I am a HUGE boxing fan though (not physically huge!). Been following it since the 70's and I know a few tricks, so watch out!

Seriously though. I have a bit of an obsession with Japan. I have never been there but I intend to go one day when I can afford to. I love the people and I love the music (J-Fusion in particular).

I need to ask you something, actually. I am trying to get hold of a DVD of one of my favourite Japanese bands. It's unavailable over here. Here is the link:

http://www.amazon.co.jp/TRIX-LIVE-To.../dp/B000XR2ODQ

1: Do you have an Amazon.jp account?
2: How much does this work out at in GBP or USD?
3: Is shipping to England expensive?
4: Am I being a cheeky by asking for your help?

I could buy this as an import from certain online stores in America but they are asking waaaay too much for it.

Yeah I do and I might be able to help. Let me check it out.


And just to be honest. I'm an English teacher. I was just having some banter with ya'.

[Dee]

Thanks.

EDIT: Replied to PM. Thanks again!

[waylay00]

Originally Posted by guitarkatana

I share his pain. I can't stand jazz or blues.

I don't think he actually dislikes jazz or blues.

[jim777]

I think he's afraid of having to change his wardrobe

[OLIE_ROCKS_THE_80'S]

Originally Posted by Dee

Come off it! It's NOTHING like jazz!

So according to you what is Jazz supposed to sound like? I never claimed the song was a full blown Jazz tune but it has a lot of elements to be considered in the genere. To back up my argument here are a few facts:
The song structure is a dead giveaway, it is based off the following scales and modes: E Aeolian, Dm13-G11-Cmaj7=C Ionian, F9#11= C melodic minor
F#m7-B7sus4= E Dorian. The wide use of octaves and jazzy motifs screams "Jazz" throughout the song. I think your judgement gets cloudy because it's obvious you hate Vai and because you don't know music theory!
I really don't know what you expect to hear in Jazz mate, did you want Vai to sound like Di Meola or Joe Pass or Scott Henderson???

[OLIE_ROCKS_THE_80'S]

Originally Posted by waylay00

I don't think he actually dislikes jazz or blues.

Yup! you hit the nail on the head! Vai just acknowledges he isn't as proficient in those generes.

[Tank]

Vai uses lots of scales that are commonly used in Jazz, he just doesn't play them like a Jazz musician would play them.
I even was lucky enough to hear a version of all along the watchtower from Vai, where he started the solo like hendrix and then floated into a very Jazzy scale, still making it sound like Hendrix edgy.
Lots of metal guitarists use the same scales and tonal variances as Jazz musicians (if they are good) and wont sound like Jazz at all...

[jb4674]

Just to add a little fire to thread, both Joe and Steve studied under a Jazz legend

Jazz is what it is. Most people talk trash about it because they don't understand it. You have to be in a different frame of mind when listening to Jazz; be it contemporary, fusion or old school jazz. Jazz is more about accuracy than constant speed and, for most folks, that's a turnoff.

I have to agree with Olie about his perception of tender surrender. there are lots of jazz traces throughout the album to justify the jazz-like sounds.

Jimmy

[Dee]

Originally Posted by OLIE_ROCKS_THE_80'S

So according to you what is Jazz supposed to sound like? I never claimed the song was a full blown Jazz tune but it has a lot of elements to be considered in the genere. To back up my argument here are a few facts:
The song structure is a dead giveaway, it is based off the following scales and modes: E Aeolian, Dm13-G11-Cmaj7=C Ionian, F9#11= C melodic minor
F#m7-B7sus4= E Dorian. The wide use of octaves and jazzy motifs screams "Jazz" throughout the song. I think your judgement gets cloudy because it's obvious you hate Vai and because you don't know music theory!
I really don't know what you expect to hear in Jazz mate, did you want Vai to sound like Di Meola or Joe Pass or Scott Henderson???

You appear to have missed the joke. Check the post before the one you quoted.

But anyway, nope, I wouldn't consider Tender Surrender to be jazz! It may have elements of jazz but it's straight ahead ROCK ballad.

Regardless, I won't argue with you about a song I don't like very much. I don't "hate" Steve Vai at all, btw. What I dislike is some of his fans. EDIT: Come to think of it, what turns me off most about Steve is his stage act. I was never keen on face pulling and posing.

And I do know enough theory to get me by. Are you saying you're a superior player than me because you know more theory? We can arrange a guitar battle anytime you want my friend! LOL. Go on Olie, post us a Dokken riff.

[DEADTUNES666]

Originally Posted by kotornut

Actually, I think classical is the pinnacle (orchestral not just guitar). But it's all entertainment is too subjective.

I was just busting when I said that. However the truth is ...

All the classical players I have ever known are bound to the sheet while jazz guys can comp and hang. Also while playing a classical piece people look to see how perfect you are on point to the written sheet (those notes don't ever change) whereas in jazz you can express yourself more. People want to see what you have going on. Nobody wants to hear your version of a Mozart or Vivaldi piece, but the Rodgers and Hart or Cole Porter songbooks are up for interpretation...

[OLIE_ROCKS_THE_80'S]

Originally Posted by Dee

You appear to have missed the joke. Check the post before the one you quoted.

But anyway, nope, I wouldn't consider Tender Surrender to be jazz! It may have elements of jazz but it's straight ahead ROCK ballad.

Regardless, I won't argue with you about a song I don't like very much. I don't "hate" Steve Vai at all, btw. What I dislike is some of his fans. EDIT: Come to think of it, what turns me off most about Steve is his stage act. I was never keen on face pulling and posing.

And I do know enough theory to get me by. Are you saying you're a superior player than me because you know more theory? We can arrange a guitar battle anytime you want my friend! LOL. Go on Olie, post us a Dokken riff.

All in good fun/discussion mate! I meant no disrespect! I just get the impression you hate Vai because every time there's a thread with something having to do with Vai you're always critical! it's all fine though! you're entitled to your opinion. As far as the theory comment I made I was just going by what you said on the music theory thread. I never wanted to pass myself as a superior player since I am nothing of the sort mate, I too only know enough theory to get me by (But I continue to learn)!
I will, however, take you on the Guitar battle thing, that should be fun!!!
Dee vs Olie head cutting duel!!! Are you sure you want to do the battle on Dokken'r riffs??? (This time it won't be out of tune) You have been forewarned my friend!!!

[cbr1000f]

Hi Dee [I guess you're the PX Dee ;-)]

Well, maybe you should ask this question to Steve Carter or any other jazz guitar teacher of Steve Vai.
Steve Vai was a student of Steve Carter at Berklee.

Here's one of his quotes about Steve:

I remember teaching a guitar "lab" (ensemble) at Berklee in the 70's.
Steve Vai was a student in the ensemble. He'd studied with me for a
semester or two and was studying with another teacher at the time. He
was talking with another student about Leavitt's "Solo in Bb" in
volumen III. He said he couldn't play it smoothly and wondered if
anyone could. I'd heard Bill play it beautifully, and I could play it
pretty well. I told Steve that and he said, quite matter-of-factly,
"Well, I guess you're a better guitar player than I am." There was no
sarcasm in his statement. Looking back, I see it as just a reflection
of Steve's understanding that there were certain things he'd have to
learn to do on the instrument to become the kind of player he wanted
to be. He certainly did that!

Steve Carter
Solo Jazz Guitarist
http://www.frogstoryrecords.com

[andy7jem]

Originally Posted by jb4674

Jazz is what it is. Most people talk trash about it because they don't understand it.

That's the trouble with jazz snobs!! If some-one doesn't like it then it's because "they don't understand it"! People are more than entitled to think something's crap!!!