Can Vai play jazz?

[ardell henderson]

Originally Posted by cbr1000f

Hmm...Steve isn't playing on these tracks. The orchestra performed his compositions on Disc 2.

Good catch cbr1000f.

True enough, the recorded guitar track on Frangelica was Pete's work. However, it is Steve's (very Zappa-esque) composition & I'm sure you would agree that the track would offer no problem whatsoever for Steve to perform.

The truest question here is what are the chances that Steve penned a tune & left the guitar track unaddressed for someone else to put their mark on it. And if so, why would the artist play a track in the spirit of Vai's style if that were the premise? It would seem that Pete played the part pretty much as Vai wrote it - in traditional Vai-Jazz style (a new sub-genre).

Access to the tune's drafts & demos would be awesome.

So to answer the question can Vai play jazz? It would seem the answer is Yes! At least that's my story & I'm stickin' to it!

[punchingboy]

I happened to pick up an old guitar for the practising musician magazine from March 1986 last night and read the vai article and just saw this question here so I thought i would type it up for you.

Guitar: Did you want to be a jazz player?

Steve: No, I never thought I wanted to do that. I like jazz and played it a bit at Berklee. I loved to sit with a fake book and blow through standards> I also love to sit with a classical book and read some of those pieces.

Guitar: My impression of Berklee was that it was a jazz school.

Steve: If you had a stratocaster at Berklee you did get the eye, and nobody played rock. If you did, you had to put canvas on the doors so nobody could see who was playing or you'd get bawled out. The time I was there Zappa was the guy I listened to most at college. I had a band called MOrning Thunder and used to write ridiculous fusion instrumentals. The only time I played jazz was when it was part of my class, but I loved going to Berklee.

Guitar: What element of jazz can you bring to rock that rock players are missing?

Steve: If you neglect the fruits of jazz in your rock playing, you're neglecting a good influence. With jazz there's a certain type of fire and understanding, and when you play it well it's a free form thing. A lot of notes go by with the chords and the relationship of those notes and chords moving in a pattern will give you a certain attitude and feel. In rock you don't have it quite that way. There's still fire but if you want to be an intense rock player it always important to get your jazz attitude hapening. When you play bebop and you know what you're doing, there's nothing like it. It's a real free expression. When you play slow bluesy jazz standards it's a real expression. Some people can express themselves really well that way. I know I could. Now it's hard for me to play through changes like that. But when you take that and put it into your rock playing, you can come up with some nice results. It works the other way too. It's always nice to hear a jazz player add rock influences. The stuff Joni Mitchell did with Jaco is a good example. I never went out and bought a jazz record, because I didn't have the money. I listened to tapes in the library. While we're at it the same holds true for classical music, which seems to be one of the points rearing it's head these days in rock. What Yngwie Malmsteen is doing with clasical music in rock makes him like a giant among minnows.

-Rick

[mike570]

Originally Posted by ardell henderson

Good catch cbr1000f.

True enough, the recorded guitar track on Frangelica was Pete's work. However, it is Steve's (very Zappa-esque) composition & I'm sure you would agree that the track would offer no problem whatsoever for Steve to perform.

The truest question here is what are the chances that Steve penned a tune & left the guitar track unaddressed for someone else to put their mark on it. And if so, why would the artist play a track in the spirit of Vai's style if that were the premise? It would seem that Pete played the part pretty much as Vai wrote it - in traditional Vai-Jazz style (a new sub-genre).

Access to the tune's drafts & demos would be awesome.

So to answer the question can Vai play jazz? It would seem the answer is Yes! At least that's my story & I'm stickin' to it!

LOL! I got fooled by this too. Pete's work was great. I though it was Steve at first, though. It sounded like something he would play. "Frangellica Pt 2" IMO is very Zappa-esque.
I would say "yes" Steve can play jazz, as evidenced on his work with Zappa. I think it's him playing at the beginning of "Marqueson's Chicken" on "Them or Us" and it's DEFINITELY him paying "Approximate" on "You Can't Do That On Stage Anymore" Vol 4 Disc 1. Lots of "You Are What You Is" gets jazzy, as do parts of "Tinseltown Rebellion". Now, these records have lots of jazz elements but I wouldn't call it "jazz" in terms of dudes like Miles Davis or Coltrane. Playing Zappa stuff is as challenging as any jazz composition and I'm sure Steve can improv over a melodic theme and, hence, play jazz.
It just ain't his bag, I'm guessing.
And I'd say "Tender Surrender" is closer to rock or R&B than anything.
Great subject!

PS: Now, if you want to hear something bad a$$, then listen to "Pound for a Brown - solos 1978" from YCDTOSA Vol 4 Disc 1 with Tommy Mars and Peter Wolf soloing on keys with Vinnie playing drums. AWESOME!

[Dee]

I'll go listen to that one, Mike. Between myself and my good lady we have a pretty ridiculous Zappa collection, I just get confused as to who played on what records sometimes. It's hard to keep up with a guy who had 70+ official releases!

[Dee]

Originally Posted by punchingboy

I happened to pick up an old guitar for the practising musician magazine from March 1986 last night and read the vai article and just saw this question here so I thought i would type it up for you.

Guitar: Did you want to be a jazz player?

Steve: No, I never thought I wanted to do that. I like jazz and played it a bit at Berklee. I loved to sit with a fake book and blow through standards> I also love to sit with a classical book and read some of those pieces.

Guitar: My impression of Berklee was that it was a jazz school.

Steve: If you had a stratocaster at Berklee you did get the eye, and nobody played rock. If you did, you had to put canvas on the doors so nobody could see who was playing or you'd get bawled out. The time I was there Zappa was the guy I listened to most at college. I had a band called MOrning Thunder and used to write ridiculous fusion instrumentals. The only time I played jazz was when it was part of my class, but I loved going to Berklee.

Guitar: What element of jazz can you bring to rock that rock players are missing?

Steve: If you neglect the fruits of jazz in your rock playing, you're neglecting a good influence. With jazz there's a certain type of fire and understanding, and when you play it well it's a free form thing. A lot of notes go by with the chords and the relationship of those notes and chords moving in a pattern will give you a certain attitude and feel. In rock you don't have it quite that way. There's still fire but if you want to be an intense rock player it always important to get your jazz attitude hapening. When you play bebop and you know what you're doing, there's nothing like it. It's a real free expression. When you play slow bluesy jazz standards it's a real expression. Some people can express themselves really well that way. I know I could. Now it's hard for me to play through changes like that. But when you take that and put it into your rock playing, you can come up with some nice results. It works the other way too. It's always nice to hear a jazz player add rock influences. The stuff Joni Mitchell did with Jaco is a good example. I never went out and bought a jazz record, because I didn't have the money. I listened to tapes in the library. While we're at it the same holds true for classical music, which seems to be one of the points rearing it's head these days in rock. What Yngwie Malmsteen is doing with clasical music in rock makes him like a giant among minnows.

-Rick

Thanks very much for taking the time to type that out, Rick. Interesting stuff.

[cbr1000f]

Originally Posted by ardell henderson

...
True enough, the recorded guitar track on Frangelica was Pete's work. However, it is Steve's (very Zappa-esque) composition & I'm sure you would agree that the track would offer no problem whatsoever for Steve to perform.

The truest question here is what are the chances that Steve penned a tune & left the guitar track unaddressed for someone else to put their mark on it. And if so, why would the artist play a track in the spirit of Vai's style if that were the premise? It would seem that Pete played the part pretty much as Vai wrote it - in traditional Vai-Jazz style (a new sub-genre)...

@ardell:
Sure, that's exactly the case here. Peter Tiehuis played what Steve composed and he succeeded to make it sound exactly how Steve wanted it to sound. By the way, I attended two concerts of this series (once in 2004 and once in 2005).Peter is a great player (he also has his own fusion band) and on July 1st, 2006 he had his own guitar concert with the same orchestra. For that concert, Steve Vai wrote a composition especially for Peter. Mike Keneally, John Scofield and Mike Stern also contributed compositions.
More can be read at the vai.com forum.
@punchingboy:
Nice read!!

[Jeroenn]

Originally Posted by ardell henderson

Good catch cbr1000f.

True enough, the recorded guitar track on Frangelica was Pete's work. However, it is Steve's (very Zappa-esque) composition & I'm sure you would agree that the track would offer no problem whatsoever for Steve to perform.

The truest question here is what are the chances that Steve penned a tune & left the guitar track unaddressed for someone else to put their mark on it. And if so, why would the artist play a track in the spirit of Vai's style if that were the premise? It would seem that Pete played the part pretty much as Vai wrote it - in traditional Vai-Jazz style (a new sub-genre).

Hi,

The solo sections (Piano, Guitar and Sax solos) in Frangelica part II are complete improvs and were (very) different with each performance.

NB: Steve wrote a specific track for Peter Tiehuis, called Oil of Smoke, which is very jazzy (yet very Vai) and if I recall correctly, also has an improv part.

j

[peromucho7]

In Vai's interview in GUITARIST mag ( sep 1993) for song 'Dirty Black Hole'
( Sex and Religion) he said: It is high energy track with this typical rock riff that goes into this cyber-jazz break down,

(and to me, begining of 'The Audience is listening' is a bit jazzy. )

Beside that, for 'Guitarist' mag ( jan 2000) they sent some blues backing tracks to Vai and Yngwey ( different tracks) and result instrumental on mag's cd is so good that I wonder why Vai didn't put it out.

[mike570]

I'd venture to say that since Vai played for Frank that he can play reggae too! Not to menshin his woik with dem country western musicshnins!

[eviltwin]

Originally Posted by mike570

Not to menshin his woik with dem country western musicshnins!

So the real question is: can Steve play the banjo?

[Dee]

Only if it has a vine inlay and pink knobs on.

[Dee]

Originally Posted by peromucho7

(and to me, begining of 'The Audience is listening' is a bit jazzy. )

Interesting. To me, "The Audience is Listening" sounds blatantly Van Halen influenced but I have never considered it to be a bit jazzy. When I think of jazz, certain names pop into my head... Hubbard, Parker, Armstrong, Blakey, Davis, Monk, Ayler, Mingus, Coleman, Dolphy, Shepp, Tyner, and so on.

[CosmicDebris]

Originally Posted by eviltwin

So the real question is: can Steve play the banjo?

If they put a swirll on one and charged 2500 for it how many here would buy it just because they saw a pic of steve with one?

[eviltwin]

Originally Posted by Dee

Interesting. To me, "The Audience is Listening" sounds blatantly Van Halen influenced but I have never considered it to be a bit jazzy. When I think of jazz, certain names pop into my head... Hubbard, Parker, Armstrong, Blakey, Davis, Monk, Ayler, Mingus, Coleman, Dolphy, Shepp, Tyner, and so on.

Obviously Eddie and Alex are hugely influenced by jazz, both through Cream (Clapton & Baker) and through their dad (clarinet-player: Jan van Halen).

Note that swing and boogie woogie are also jazz, so it's very hard not to play some jazz in either rock, blues or country.

As for Vai, the bridge and solo of "ladies' night in buffalo" remind me of John Coltrane,

You can jazz it up or play it slow...

[DEADTUNES666]

Originally Posted by CosmicDebris

If they put a swirll on one and charged 2500 for it how many here would buy it just because they saw a pic of steve with one?

Me, there's one for ya...