Metallica's And Justice for All - Where's the Bass??

[Superuser]

I love this album ever since it was released, but I have played this album countless times in many various types of sound systems and I just cannot pick out and hear separately the bass guitar track in any part of this album.

I've heard about the band along with the producer wanting to go after a different production quality on AJFA, one that would sound great in any type of system from crappy boombox to elite system, but did they sacrifice the bass to do it? ..... or is there something deeper involved.... like perhaps the bass made incoherent and silent as a tribute to Cliff? or did Jason just play the same thing as the guitar notes so exact that you can't tell guitar from bass? Just some questions i have .

is it just me?

is there bass guitar on any of this album?

if there is, can someone tell me exactly where they hear it so i can hear it too?

perhaps my ears are just shot, but I couldn't hear it back when it was released either.

[The Madness Here]

this has been an issue since it came out.

The bass was turned WAY down in the mix, and has garnered a lot of criticism because of it. Some people blame James for not being able to get over Cliff and "hazing" Jason, others blame the ego of Lars and his need to have the drums too loud. Read into it what you want, but you are one of many who noticed the lack of bass.

by the way, the bass mirrors the rhythm guitar the entire time.

[JESTER700]

The level of bass (the frequency range, not the instrument) on everything is bad. Have you ever heard a clickier, wimpier, pussier kick drum? (I'm refraining from making any drum sound/drummer parallels here ;-) )

I think the band might have had too much control by then. The next album's introduction of a new producer seemed to fix the problem.

[GuitarWizard]

I've felt that St. Anger and ...And Justice for All have the same vibe to them. I hate the production on both. The writing is considerably better on ....And justice for all, but I don't care for the sound quality of either of these albums.
I like the sound of the Black album. Many have said that the Black album was "over produced" , but I think it works for Metallica. The songs sound huge on the Black album, and I feel they never sounded better before......or since.
By 2003, I don't know if its age, or alcoholism, but James Hetfield does not have the voice anymore to have a "raw" album.
James of today, is like an Axl Rose of any day........they need all the production help they can get in the studio. The production of Saint Anger was the worst compliment to James's voice...
As, like "Reload" or not....at least James was still kind of singing then.
There is a lot of "talking" on Saint Anger.

[davester1234]

Originally Posted by The Madness Here

this has been an issue since it came out.

The bass was turned WAY down in the mix, and has garnered a lot of criticism because of it. Some people blame James for not being able to get over Cliff and "hazing" Jason, others blame the ego of Lars and his need to have the drums too loud. Read into it what you want, but you are one of many who noticed the lack of bass.

by the way, the bass mirrors the rhythm guitar the entire time.

I was under the impression it was because they couldn't fully accept jason at that time.

[jemsite]

Originally Posted by davester1234

I was under the impression it was because they couldn't fully accept jason at that time.

this is why. they made him play the guitar lines and not deviate. the results are poor as a result.

[dex]

Michael Barbiero mixed "Justice" for Metallica and reportedly was told by Lars (James was "in" on that as well)

"Turn the bass guitar to where you can barely hear it, and then drop it down 3db from there."

He called the management company and was told to do whatever the band asked of him.
No one knows why they did it but the lack of bass is very evident and every 'tallica fan knows that there is no bass on "Justice".

ilia

[Superuser]

well balls to Newsted, if that was the case. That took some mighty patience on his part to go through that because that situation would suck for him as a musician. It's like cutting the legs off a race-horse!

[Break Zero]

Whats intresting if, I found a site like a week ago with the entire album on mp3 remixed so you can hear the Bass (and yes, I own the original album. And the site said many times to buy it if you diddn't). And the album sounds lot better with the Bass, especially Blackened.
Unfortunatly, the site was taken down very shortly after. And I lost the link to boot.

[JESTER700]

Originally Posted by dex

Michael Barbiero mixed "Justice" for Metallica and reportedly was told by Lars (James was "in" on that as well)

He called the management company and was told to do whatever the band asked of him.
No one knows why they did it but the lack of bass is very evident and every 'tallica fan knows that there is no bass on "Justice".

ilia

*If true*, this is stupid beyond belief. Their job is to make the best music possible. To do something like that because of a screwball emotional hangup is ripping off customers, IMO.

[revsharp777]

I've heard the "James said to turn down Jason" rumors for years now. However, I recently came across a website that detailed what gear James & Kirk used for each album & also for live shows. In the AJFA recording section, James had a quote regarding the loss of bass guitar.

He said that due to his VERY "scooped mid" tone on that album, his rhythm guitar stomped all over Jason's frequencies. He said they didn't realize the problem until they started mixing. With an upcoming tour to go on shortly after their time in the studio, they opted to use what was recorded rather than re-record. So yes, they are very aware of the problem.

I've also seen where a guitar magazine asked James if their would be any chance of releasing a re-mixed version of AJFA. He said they had thought of doing it, but at that time, they were concentrating on writing new material. So who knows, we may seeing a re-mixed version come out in the future.

[JESTER700]

Originally Posted by revsharp777

I've heard the "James said to turn down Jason" rumors for years now. However, I recently came across a website that detailed what gear James & Kirk used for each album & also for live shows. In the AJFA recording section, James had a quote regarding the loss of bass guitar.

He said that due to his VERY "scooped mid" tone on that album, his rhythm guitar stomped all over Jason's frequencies. He said they didn't realize the problem until they started mixing. With an upcoming tour to go on shortly after their time in the studio, they opted to use what was recorded rather than re-record. So yes, they are very aware of the problem.

And they couldn't re-EQ the guitar on the console or with outboard? What were they using, a Behringer board? ;-)

[sanitarium]

Originally Posted by Break Zero

Whats intresting if, I found a site like a week ago with the entire album on mp3 remixed so you can hear the Bass (and yes, I own the original album. And the site said many times to buy it if you diddn't). And the album sounds lot better with the Bass, especially Blackened.
Unfortunatly, the site was taken down very shortly after. And I lost the link to boot.

You mean this: http://www.hagmanation.nu/ajfj/
As the message says, it's not working for download at the moment. He hasn't remixed it though, that bass has been over dubbed, probably played by himself.
On the subject, Jason is a great heavy metal bass player and this was the best album they did with him. He had a very hard job replacing Cliff but I think he put up with Hetfield and co pretty well. Speaking of Hetfield, is it just me or has he become so much cheesier now, he's influenced by country music too much. The new bass player player sucks big time, he did a "bass solo" when I saw em live and it was crap. Cliff was a monster and his solo's were amazing and mad, Jason's solos (the few i've seen) were quite melodic and really good. Rob thingy just played a distored e string and played a few notes that you couldn't hear over the distortion, it was really naff.

[EnigmaUV7]

James said they were trying to get the most in-your-face rhythm guitar sound possible, but ended up way too dry and stomped all over the bass frequencies. Looking back now, the production had lots of problems, but there were still some kick ass songs and James' voice sounded great back then. The Black Album was their best production wise although Master of Puppets and Kill 'Em All also sound excellent.

And yes, they did have the wimpiest, most sissy kick drum sound ever on AJFA, no deep punch to it, it is identical to the kick drum on one of the Stryper albums.

As for St. Anger, I couldn't even listen to the title track on the radio all the way through, the production and song are the worst, Bob Rock should have been fired for his crappy music direction influence on Load onward, but that's another thread...........

[wilch]

Actually the bass isn't turned down in the mix at all.

The bass was recorded at a frequency that most amplifiers (not the guitar type) and speakers cannot play properly. Basically it gets drowned out by the sound of the guitars at that frequency by most amps and speakers.

Buy a Headroom headphone amp and a set of Sennheiser HD600's and I guarantee you will hear the bass guitar clearly as well as everything else. (I have the previous mentioned items)

The starkness of the album is amazing though. Almost clinical sounding.

wil..