<back   Jemsite > Buy, Sell or Trade > Vendors, Auction & Reseller Talk

Vendors, Auction & Reseller Talk Not for posting JEM/UV ads. Not for posting dealer/broker ads. Not for advertising ebay auctions. This is to chat about resellers, various gear in question, odd items or the people selling them.

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #61  
Old 06-10-2008, 05:47 AM
(a)
Rich  is offline
Vendor
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 21,776  -  iTrader: (21)

Re: Customer Issue over UPS claim


I have a 24 hour no questions asked return policy, including damage, buyers remorse, anything. You loose shipping.

Evidently he's posting here to begin his promised smear campaign. As if I don't have aproaching 13 hours into dealing with the guitar, claim and case order, and post claim threats, now I get to spend however many more chasing after him clearing up the half truths.
  #62  
Old 06-10-2008, 09:32 AM
chaos731  is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Northern Virginia (suburbs of DC)
Posts: 489  -  iTrader: (6)

Re: Customer Issue over UPS claim


Jesus, Rich...
We all know you can be a little grumpy sometimes , but I think we're also quite aware of your reputation, quality of service, etc. So, there's really no need for you to defend yourself 'round these parts. Just let the little feller run around all he wants; eventually, he'll tucker himself out and take a nice long nap. Then, he'll just play his (no doubt) beautifully set-up instrument and move on with his life.

Storm, brother, I don't know what to tell you...your situation sucks, to be sure. I read your post...thoroughly...and I understand where you're coming from. But dude, just take one of Rich's options and move on with your life. I'm as idealistic as the next guy...probably more so...so I understand that you want to beat this particular dead horse just on general principle. But that's what it is at this point...a dead horse. Rich has been pretty reasonable with you, but he's got a business to run. It's unfortunate, but there's no way in hell that either side is going to be completely happy with the outcome of this transaction. Rich is willing to bite the proverbial bullet to one degree or another, and that's tons more than most retailers/resellers would do (try this crap with Musician's Friend, for example...they'll seriously laugh at you over the phone, then call other customer service rep's over so they can laugh at you, too). Just cut your losses (whatever you perceive those losses to be), and chalk this one up to a lessen-learned, if you must.

Rich...what are you doing up that early? Jeez. Get some sleep, dude.
  #63  
Old 06-10-2008, 01:31 PM
(a)
michblanch  is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Houston Tx.
Posts: 1,181  -  iTrader: (4)

Re: Customer Issue over UPS claim


I have been a member here since 2002 and I have NEVER heard anything but praise towards Rich.

His reputation is impecable.
  #64  
Old 06-10-2008, 01:42 PM
ezerneke  is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
Posts: 6  -  iTrader: (0)

Re: Customer Issue over UPS claim


rich... i've bought two guitars from you and you've never been anything but completely professional. i think you've acted in the best interests of your client and without reading some of the middle posts, i would say that you may have been able to wash your hands of it by letting the guy keep the damaged case and giving him a partial sum or potentially all of the claim check from UPS and when the new case came in, you would own that outright. maybe not what you wanted - more inventory - but given the situation and the status of those cases being difficult to acquire - i wouldn't doubt you would recover your expenses on the case (other than all your time and headaches of course).

regardless of what you do or what your (past tense) client does - you have an excellent reputation in the market when it comes to all-things-ibanez and this situation is certainly not going to tarnish it. keep your chin up and don't be pulled down by someone already down in it...

-z
  #65  
Old 06-10-2008, 01:52 PM
newbieguitarmaker  is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Orlando, Fl (Naples during part of summer)
Posts: 4,101  -  iTrader: (5)

Re: Customer Issue over UPS claim


I bought one guitar from Rich and almost another (till some money issues and mixups) and he was a total Professional and a trustworthy guy all the way. He has never let me down and from what I see he hasn't let any other jemsiters down, now why would he decide to start ripping people off all of a sudden? He wouldn't
  #66  
Old 06-10-2008, 02:26 PM
Silver Sable  is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Murfreesboro, TN
Posts: 130  -  iTrader: (0)

Re: Customer Issue over UPS claim


Jesus you people are making a hell of a lot of emotional investment in a big piece of plastic, foam, and cloth that usually just ends up stuck in some corner of the room or a closet.

What we have here is a failure to communicate! Rich probably assumed that everyone understands how UPS claims work and how much of a pain in the behind it can be. Perhaps the customer didn't really know all that suff and was afraid some dealer he didn't know at all was going to stiff him with a bum case. But on the other hand, clearly anyone who would call a half dozen times in such a short time period is a bit neurotic as well. Sure, I'd be pissy if my new guitar had a hole in the case and it was nearly impossible to get a new one. But even then, I doubt I'd call more than once or twice and send an email or two to confirm what was going on. As a customer you still have a responsibility to ask the status of things right?

So both parties are at some degree of fault in this. But to make it worse now you've come over here and acted like children. I've not dealt with Rich before, but even from his first few posts my opinion was diminishing. I can understand how Rich feels and I can even understand how he feels justified in his own behavior up to a point. But honestly, there is no reason to come over here and start a thread if he felt he had truly handled everything correctly. He wanted everyone here to tell him he was right. And Storm88 wanted to come here to play the victim himself as I'm sure he knows his conduct was out of line.

Just pray the second case makes it safely to its destination and maybe someday both of you can admit you were wrong and not communicating clearly in this and try to apologize to each other for the whole misunderstanding.
  #67  
Old 06-10-2008, 02:34 PM
(a)
Rich  is offline
Vendor
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 21,776  -  iTrader: (21)

Re: Customer Issue over UPS claim


I actually opened this to see what everybodies opinion would be as to how I should handle it, from the point this was at when I started the thread. The concensus was send him a case, and send it now. Done. I definitely don't always make the right decisions which is why I was asking, and I appreciated the input.
  #68  
Old 06-10-2008, 08:20 PM
storm88  is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 11  -  iTrader: (0)

Re: Customer Issue over UPS claim


Responses to posts #57-67

#57 - Yes Rich, you said you would try, but you would say, "I'll try" [mumbled at very low volume] followed by a diatribe about how much you didn't want to even ask, let alone try. You never stated you would do you best to get one, or anything like that.

I didn't know you had even asked about the case until I e-mailed YOU on June 3rd. The last time we spoke/e-mailed before that was May 14th. By my math, that's not contacting me - at all - for nearly three weeks!!! ---> IS THAT TRUE OR NOT? <---

You only offered to return the $100 portion AFTER I stated I would go to UPS with all of the details.

You were all manners when you and the earlier posters were just flaming me in absentia. Now that I've had my say and some people are seeing that I have a legitimate side you resort to dragging... my toddler into it? He's off-limits buddy. Leave him out of it. You on the board won't know this, but Rich and I exchanged around 110 e-mails and around three hours on the phone all told and my 2-year old was a frequent subject. Rich calling him 3 is comes off as a dig (like someone referring to a 'he' as a 'she'). Very classy Rich. Off-limits.

#58
While you were taking care of the claim, I was doing a lot of work too trying to get information and details on other cases. Again, having not contacted me from the afternoon of May 14 - June 3rd, I didn't know you had done anything.

#59
I have never had a UPS claim in my life. I don't run a shipping business. How would I know about diminished value? I still don't know exactly what it is, and I never heard the term until a few days ago.

I refused the salvage tag because I would have no case for a guitar I just dropped $1575 for. I have no idea what UPS' rules are, so I didn't 'know' anything. I actually thought I would loose the claim at that point because I had already told UPS I couldn't give the case up until I had a replacement (that's why the claims person came to my house instead of me shipping them the case). I thought they were creating a technicallity to deny the claim.

#61
I never promised a smear campaign. This is the only site to which I have posted and I don't think anyone could claim I am smearing, not in the least. You should fess up to your half truths Rich.

#66
Better communication is always a plus which is why I wanted to call Rich, but he refused. I think I did communicated very clearly. I do wish I had been a bit slower with the ultimatum, but these are all of the e-mails from both of us that led up to my ultimatum (posted below).
My main beef is that according to Rich, when I make a mistake it's my fault, but when we or he make mistakes, that's my fault too (at least I'm left to deal with it). With all of the effort involved to get the desiccant pack - complete with instructions - he forgot it and just said, "uh, sorry." When I told him about the 4 marks made by his string winder on the headstock he said [paraphrasing] 'Yeah, that happens. I didn't catch it before it shipped'. and told me how to use 0000 grit abbrasive to get it out. I thought the point of losing my Ibanez warranty (and now Rich's warranty) and sending $1575 sight unseen was NOT to have to finish the details at home?
  #69  
Old 06-10-2008, 08:23 PM
(a)
elcid  is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: chicago
Posts: 9,328  -  iTrader: (12)

Re: Customer Issue over UPS claim


If Rich sold real guitars, I'd gladly buy one from him.
  #70  
Old 06-10-2008, 08:30 PM
storm88  is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 11  -  iTrader: (0)

Re: Customer Issue over UPS claim


These are the e-mails between Rich and I that immediately preceed my ultimatum. These are ALL of the COMPLETE e-mail by BOTH of us. All were written on June 03, 2008 (the time stamps are correct, but mine is Pacific and his is Eastern. As these are off my computer, add 3 to the hour of Rich' e-mails for an accurate timeline). I can provide whatever documentation needed, although Rich can easily confirm these are authentic. All are direct copy and pastes with NO ALTERATIONS. This is my first communication with Rich in any form since the afternoon of May 14th.

storm88 (3:52 PM)
I haven't heard from you in a while regarding the insurance claim on the case. Please let me know exactly what is going on.
Thank You

Rich (1:21 PM)
damn, i had a virus hit at the same time and took 2 days to get everything back, so i forgot to write.they took the order for the new case. not that it's going to be anytime soom, should be about 3 - 4 months, but you'll be getting a new case sooner or later.

storm88 (9:35 PM)
Sorry about that last one. I hit sent as I sat down.
The last time we spoke/e-mailed you had stated that I should "take the money and run" and to wait until I can find a JS Prestige case on **** or the like. I had asked for you to broach getting a new case from Ibanez and you mentioned it just wasn't worth the trouble. I had no indication you were even going to ask about getting a replacement case, let alone ordering one and I was never told you were placing an order on my behalf. I am getting a replacement case one way or another and I may be interested in purchasing the case you ordered, but in the meantime would you please send a check for the $268.82 regarding the UPS refund/claim for my original damaged case?
Thank You

Rich (7:28 PM)
let me explain this to you.
first i had to drive a 10 mile round trip just to make copies to fax to them. fill out the forms. fax them, fight with 2 different claims agents and a supervisor [2 seperate calls alone] about accepting diminished value added to the claim, have to drive 15 mile round trip to my local dealer and use up valuable favor points to get the manager to type out and sign a valuation for diminished value ups demanded, when he had the time, so i was there a hour to get it done, fax that in. have to call both times to make sure they got the faxes, otherwise when you call 2 weeks later asking about the claim they tell you they never got the faxes, so you have to be sure they got them as soon as you send them. add up how much time, not to mention gas, phone, etc just to get the claim completely filled. then i think it was 4 calls specifically about ordering the case, and mentioning it with every other call i had to make there anyway [that and a trem bar they shorted me i've been waiting for 4 months for, and still stealing it out of another guitar every time i sell the one it's missing from]. ups claims are nothing but a pain, hounding the dealer to hound the distributor about the case is the same, which was why i didn't want to do it, but it's all done. you wanted a new perfect case, a new perfect case is what you'll be getting, it's just going to take a few months to come in from japan. and technically now that i've gotten themto order the case i should be returning the diminished value part of the claim bacause the package will no longer have a damaged case. i'm sorry you changed your mind now but it's already done and i'm not about to reverse that after fighting for it.

storm 88 (1:24 AM)
Rich, I completely appreciate the effort put in to resolving this. At the beginning, all I wanted was a new perfect case. However, you spent every opportunity talking me out of it because it was a pain. I never pressed you on it and just asked you to do what you could. The entire situation was me asking for a new case if possible and you saying "no" in many, many ways. The notion of me actually getting a new case from you was never seriously mentioned, ever.

Last we spoke, you were reluctant to even mention the case to Ibanez and said over and over, "Take the money and run." You never contacted me about any aspect of the claim resolution or ordering a new case. Your hard work not withstanding, it is unreasonable to now say, "I'm doing what I previously said I wouldn't do and don't do what I've been telling you to do all along." We left off our last conversation with me getting whatever settlement money UPS granted, if any, and you reiterating that you didn't want to even pursue getting a replacement case.

Under any circumstances it would be unethical for a seller who incurred no loss to try and pocket settlement money gotten completely on someone else's behalf. I am willing to talk about purchasing the case at the cost we had discussed, but any and all settlement funds were gotten on my behalf.

I tried to approach this in a way in which you could just do the right thing. You know what the honest thing to do is. I hope you will abide by what you know is the right thing to do and that this will not drag on.
Thank You

Rich (10:39 PM)
the "honest" thing to do is to return the $100 diminished value part of the claim to ups and then get you your case. if you want me to do that i'll be happy to. not exactly honest but i am the one doing all the work without compensation, several times with ups, i surely had no moral qualms about keeping it for the work ups makes me do. you know you have no right to "diminished value" claim if there will be no diminished value, you will have a brand new case, and you also got to keep the one you have.you asked over and over, "please try", i told you i would try [whether you remember or not], but i sure didn't expect anything, and that i thought you should take the money and run. i was wrong, not that it was easy, but it was no where near as tough as the first time. but once i asked and got a "maybe" reply i pursued it.my only responsibility to you is to provide you with replacement of the damaged case, OR, the ups claim in the event no case could be gotten.


BTW, the reason Rich is so ticked off in his 7:28 e-mail is that I wasn't supposed to know the claim amount (which I mentioned in my previous e-mail) because it was on his account. He told me he was going to try to get a $170 cash claim. Instead, he got $268 and this is when, after avoiding it for so long, he miraculously found a way to get me a TJC case. He pockets the difference, which I was never supposed to know about. But after not hearing from Rich for so long I asked a friend who works for UPS to see if a check had been issued. He told me the date and amount. That's why Rich is so mad about all of this.
  #71  
Old 06-10-2008, 08:35 PM
(a)
CosmicDebris  is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Richmond VA, USA
Posts: 3,955  -  iTrader: (7)

Re: Customer Issue over UPS claim


Most of them have real Dimarzios. That is a plus.
  #72  
Old 06-10-2008, 08:44 PM
(a)
elcid  is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: chicago
Posts: 9,328  -  iTrader: (12)

Re: Customer Issue over UPS claim


but not a pickup that is good for a shred tone.
  #73  
Old 06-10-2008, 09:05 PM
voodoo_child  is offline
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 717  -  iTrader: (1)

Re: Customer Issue over UPS claim


Storm88,

Rich has agreed to send you a case, and you're still here pasting e-mails and doing the 'i said, he said' thing. I think I predicted something like this on page 2

Give it a rest. You had a transaction that you're not happy with; i've been there and it sucks. But it's done, resolved, you're getting a new case and Rich for his trouble is going to have a JS1000 sitting caseless and un-sellable for a couple of months.

Take your case, enjoy your guitar, quit whining and close the book on this whole thing. Life is too short to keep dragging out something so stupid.
  #74  
Old 06-10-2008, 09:30 PM
ryanb  is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Detroit, MI, USA
Posts: 1,457  -  iTrader: (0)

Re: Customer Issue over UPS claim


Why do you keep trying to create this idea that Rich is attempting to commit fraud and pocket some sort of profit from this? It is clear from the email that YOU posted that Rich clearly stated from the beginning the $100 diminished value would be returned to UPS, not pocketed by him. You invented the idea that he was keeping it. The case was $170, not $85. The shipping cost is more than justified for Rich to keep. That's what it was for. Rich is one of the only vendors who would be honest enough to actually return that money (at more trouble for himself). When he forgot to contact you (he IS busy), you should have contacted him first before sending your mole sneaking around.

You got what you wanted -- a brand new TJC case -- and you didn't have to wait 5 months OR give up the old one. What more could you possibly want? Your evidence is hurting you more than Rich. Let it go!
  #75  
Old 06-11-2008, 01:58 AM
(a)
Rich  is offline
Vendor
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 21,776  -  iTrader: (21)

Re: Customer Issue over UPS claim


Quote:
Originally Posted by storm88 View Post
Responses to posts #57-67

#57 - Yes Rich, you said you would try, but you would say, "I'll try" [mumbled at very low volume] followed by a diatribe about how much you didn't want to even ask, let alone try. You never stated you would do you best to get one, or anything like that.
Right, now you admit I said I would try, but play it down by saying it was a mumble......

Quote:
Originally Posted by storm88 View Post
I didn't know you had even asked about the case until I e-mailed YOU on June 3rd. The last time we spoke/e-mailed before that was May 14th. By my math, that's not contacting me - at all - for nearly three weeks!!! ---> IS THAT TRUE OR NOT? <--
That was in response to you saying the claim was approved 5/14,

Quote:
Originally Posted by storm88 View Post
The claim was approved on May 14th and I still don't have a replacement. .


and the answer was it was not finalized until 5/23, I would have had nothing to tell you, and still then I was still in the process of trying to get the case on order. Funny how you didn't post that timeline I sent you that delineates me trying to get maximum claim from UPS at your request [[in case a case could not be ordered] AND getting the case on order, both working simultaneous.

Quote:
Originally Posted by storm88 View Post
You only offered to return the $100 portion AFTER I stated I would go to UPS with all of the details.
Bull, shown in the emails you posted
>Rich (10:39 PM)
the "honest" thing to do is to return the $100 diminished value part of the claim to ups and then get you your case. if you want me to do that i'll be happy to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by storm88 View Post
You were all manners when you and the earlier posters were just flaming me in absentia. Now that I've had my say and some people are seeing that I have a legitimate side you resort to dragging... my toddler into it? He's off-limits buddy. Leave him out of it. You on the board won't know this, but Rich and I exchanged around 110 e-mails and around three hours on the phone all told and my 2-year old was a frequent subject. Rich calling him 3 is comes off as a dig (like someone referring to a 'he' as a 'she'). Very classy Rich. Off-limits.
Maybe all the humidity is getting to your reasoning powers, because I'm at a loss as to how me stating "scolding me like I was your 3 year old" is bringing your 3 year old into anything. It was directed completely at you and the tone of your little "scolding" for forgetting the desiccant pack, that miraculously took a whole month to get.

Quote:
Originally Posted by storm88 View Post
#58
While you were taking care of the claim, I was doing a lot of work too trying to get information and details on other cases. Again, having not contacted me from the afternoon of May 14 - June 3rd, I didn't know you had done anything.
I'm sure it was staggering.

Quote:
Originally Posted by storm88 View Post
#59
I have never had a UPS claim in my life. I don't run a shipping business. How would I know about diminished value? I still don't know exactly what it is, and I never heard the term until a few days ago..
Wrong, I not only told you on the phone when I told you I would try to get diminished value added, and explained it, as you wanted the maximum you could get from UPS if you couldn't get the case replaced, AND, it's in the emails, again that you posted below, which, were before the emails where you accused me of trying to flim flam, and scam you, and then the email with all the threats [feedback?! ] where you were still demanding the whole check, all after diminished value was shown.

>>>>
Quote:
Originally Posted by storm88 View Post

For example, he states that I wanted the $268 claim check, including a $100 diminished value that I didn't deserve because Rich could order a case (I think this is where many people accused me of being a fraud). However, I didn't file the claim and had no information other that the total amount and that the original s/h charge was included. I had no idea there was a 'diminish value' part of the claim or even what that meant, just that $268 was granted for my damaged case!!!


>>>>[i]Rich (10:39 PM)
the "honest" thing to do is to return the $100 diminished value part of the claim to ups and then get you your case. if you want me to do that i'll be happy to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by storm88 View Post
I refused the salvage tag because I would have no case for a guitar I just dropped $1575 for. I have no idea what UPS' rules are, so I didn't 'know' anything. I actually thought I would loose the claim at that point because I had already told UPS I couldn't give the case up until I had a replacement (that's why the claims person came to my house instead of me shipping them the case). I thought they were creating a technicallity to deny the claim.
Yet, you're the one with the UPS friend.

Quote:
Originally Posted by storm88 View Post
#61
I never promised a smear campaign. This is the only site to which I have posted and I don't think anyone could claim I am smearing, not in the least. You should fess up to your half truths Rich..
I'm sure that's why you forgot to post the email with your laundry list of threats, which you now want to say would just be "feedback"

Quote:
Originally Posted by storm88 View Post
#66
Better communication is always a plus which is why I wanted to call Rich, but he refused.
Again it has to be stated? After your accusations and threats right up to the night before you asked to call, I'm supposed to just accept your call to discuss it? By that point you absolutely didn't want me on the phone, and there's no way I want to talk with you!

Quote:
Originally Posted by storm88 View Post
#I think I did communicated very clearly. I do wish I had been a bit slower with the ultimatum, but these are all of the e-mails from both of us that led up to my ultimatum (posted below).
My main beef is that according to Rich, when I make a mistake it's my fault, but when we or he make mistakes, that's my fault too (at least I'm left to deal with it). .
And what exactly are you "left to deal with"? Getting a new case instead of buying another one you had "looked into"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by storm88 View Post
#With all of the effort involved to get the desiccant pack - complete with instructions - he forgot it and just said, "uh, sorry." .
post that email!! And please tell me how much trouble getting a desiccant pack was. Since it took a month I must assume it's a magic pack, and since it had instructions too, like, put in case?

Quote:
Originally Posted by storm88 View Post
#When I told him about the 4 marks made by his string winder on the headstock he said [paraphrasing] 'Yeah, that happens. I didn't catch it before it shipped'. and told me how to use 0000 grit abbrasive to get it out. I thought the point of losing my Ibanez warranty (and now Rich's warranty) and sending $1575 sight unseen was NOT to have to finish the details at home?
I've had to look into this of course, and it is NOT my string winder, it doesn't get within 3/8" of the headstock. The only explanation for them is when my thumbnail is a little long [yea, that's the extent of the marks] Not that they should be there, and I missed it. They wipe right off with 0000. And it is said several times in several places, "EXPECT there to be signs I've worked on your guitar for 6 hours".
Closed Thread

Tags
root beer jem


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Show/Hide Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



Show/Hide Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Vandenberg 1st issue #486 -TRADES? piranha Classified Ads: Guitars and Gear 5 05-18-2008 04:25 AM
Tuning issue psp777 Tech: Setup, Repairs and Mods 12 01-31-2008 08:26 PM
Saddle Issue (Please Help) xed Other Ibanez Guitars (including Premiums) 8 05-23-2007 11:41 PM
isp connectivity with wireless router issue shredmaster Off-topic / Miscellaneous 13 08-31-2005 12:12 PM
Important Ibanez Issue : Stock Pickups ATE-Fred Comments to Ibanez 0 07-07-2004 10:50 AM

Sitemap:1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:49 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
(c) jemsite.com
Powered by