International Shipping Fiasco w/ Paypal

[screamndemon69]

this is just an experience i'm going thru and not by any means a blanket statement about shipping internationally.
i sold a guitar (auction close value $875 w/ shipping $975) on e*ay to a gentleman in the UK. he paid thru Paypal (my first mistake) immediately and i shipped the guitar thru the US Postal Service using their economy service (second mistake). the economy service is said to take from 6-8 weeks in delivery time to arrive. the guitar was shipped Nov 7th and has yet to arrive. Paypal's policy is if you have a problem you only have 45 days to place a claim. since this guitar has yet to arrive, the buyer has filed a complaint and is working on a refund thru Paypal. using the USPS i don't have the option of a tracking # which is what Paypal is requesting from me in this dispute.
i called Paypal and was told if i had followed their guidlines i wouldn't be having any problems right now and in the same breathe told me they know you can't have a tracking code thru the USPS. wtf? i was then told selling overseas is not protected thru Paypal. 2nd wtf? Paypal sent me an email on the 20th of Dec telling me of this dispute and is expecting me to either refund his money, tell them i have already refunded him his money or give them a tracking code before Dec 25th or they will find in his favor and charge back the $950. there is no other options listed to explain my case in their "resolve" link. i sold the guitar ONLY because i had bills that needed paying and had no other options (rent, electric, ect) so needless to say i couldn't refund him anyway. as this is going i'm going to be charged the money AND be out of my beloved guitar.
i sent an email to their dispute dept and recieved an email back saying "we recieved your email and a representative will answer it within the next 30 days". 3rd wtf? they give me 5 days to resolve but expect me to wait 30 days for a reply to my extremely time sensitive situation.
at this point i'm talking with the USPS about trying to track the package using customs forms but this will take some time being Christmas time and all. i have asked Paypal to extend their deadline past Dec 25.
i'm beside myself with this. the guy seems like a stand up guy i sold the guitar to so hopefully he proves to be - however this works out. i can foresee a couple ugly endings in this but would prefer not to think the worst yet.
i just wanted to share this story so maybe it will help others when shipping domestically or internationally. i've sold thousands of dollars in gear over the past years and have never had a problem. i sent a guitar to France a couple months ago and had no real problems. i sent a guitar to Greece a month ago and had no problems (other than the guy saying the neck was twisted - it was a perfect neck and i think he was fishing for some money back thinking i'm a sap or something - he was wrong). i watch my P's and Q's and i'm very disgruntled with Paypal and i'm not too likely to ship internationally again because of this problem. AAAARRRGGGHHH!!! Merry Effing Christmas - "sorry kids, Santa won't be here this year".

[Rich]

Paypal Buyer Protection? IMO if your Paypal account is empty, kill the account and any bank account it's linked to [they have power of attorney]. This is between you and the buyer. If it's covered by insurance then there is no problem. Your morals are all that matters. He'll either get his guitar or the claim will be made and he'll be refuned. You won't be able to use Paypal anymore, but then is the service worth $950? [you can always open another Paypal account using a different address [PO Box] and different credit card later]

You should be able to track it by it's insurance # though!

[snakeman4968]

Hi,
I've just received a shipping quote on a guitar from Florida to the UK and it came in at $128 via Global EMS and the transit time quoted at 3-5 days.

I know hindsight is a great thing and won't really help your situation....but why use an economy postal service?

If i'd paid $875 for a guitar and it was already going to cost me $100 for shipping anyway, i don't think i'd be overbothered about paying as much as an extra $85-$100 or so if it meant the difference between getting the guitar in 3-5 days or even 1 -2 weeks as opposed to 6-8 weeks!!!

At the end of the day, if the buyer is not prepared to pay for a decent postal service on such an expensive item then tell him/her not to bother bidding. Personally, I'd expect to pay in the region of $150-$200 if i was buying from the USA and would already be considering this before deciding what i was prepared to bid up to on a guitar.

Also, i didn't realise that the paypal protection thing wasn't valid for overseas transactions...glad you put that on here as i would only buy from overseas using Paypal because i thought i was covered....guess not!!!

Later,
snakeman4968

[screamndemon69]

i appreciate the input guys and the buyer sent me an email this morning telling me he is trying to get e*bay to work with us on this to extend the due date.
i made a few mistakes in this transaction and i'm hoping hey don't end up biting me in the ass - we'll see. i'll keep you guys posted.

[Liggy]

Paypal works great when your on the receiving end (the buyer).
Its a different matter when selling. Somebody else has always got control of your account/money until the item youve sold is delivered. If it gets delivered!!!
More and more US sellers seem to be pulling out of paypal. This spoils buying from US for the overseas buyers.(you cant always trust giving out your bank details to a total stranger for a bank transfer can you??)
Ive gotta check the overseas protection thing, im involved with a 'Sticky' overseas sale too!!

Good luck m8, hope all works out for you!!

[screamndemon69]

the guitar arrived yeaterday - after Paypal suspended my account and charged me back for the $950. i am lucky that the buyer is honest and is sending me the money back.
lessons learned:
NEVER send something without insurance
NEVER send something economy post - always send 5 day service
NEVER send something w/out proof of delivery
i hope others will learn from my stupid mistakes and not go thru the same stress that i have for the last couple months over this.
today is a happier day - now i'm on pins and needles until the cheque arrives.
thanks for the kind words and support guys.

[fono22]

Can I just say that I really appreciate your comments on this thread screamndemon69 ... I'm going to purchase from the United States, I know it I'm on the other side of the picture, but you have some really good advice there for people buying and selling instruments overseas.

It's a shame paypal put you through so much Shi..... strife

Lance

[jim777]

I sent an Ibanez AX-7521 to Sweden recently through the USPS, and it was about 90 dolalrs for the 5 day (which took 8 days). So you're right, always send anything valuable the fastest way you possibly can. Even a few bucks can add weeks to the arrival time. I'm glad it appears to be working out for you!

[screamndemon69]

it is definitely the way to go. i would have normally sent it with full insurance and all the tracking (which is what i do on all my domestic stuff) but i'm still a little green as to international shipping and all that needs to be done to protect you and the receiver.
i recently sent a guitar to Greece where the guy requested i claim $65 value on a $450 guitar so he didn't have duty fees. the guitar arrived messed up so he has NO recourse. it was a shame as i really hated to sell that guitar in the first place.
READ ALL the paypal policies and auction site agreements so you understand your rights and know for sure that you have followed their proceedures or else they might leave you out in the cold like i was.
i was lucky that the person i was trading with was honest - i've read about a lot of people that weren't so lucky. DON'T be one of the unlucky ones. be aware of your rights and what you need to do to be protected. i always had tracking and never a problem domestically but international shipping is a different ball game.
if you ever have any questions, just post on jemsite as there are a lot of experienced people in international shipping. you should be able to get answers in a day or two - what a wonderful resource of people here

[fettouhi]

Originally Posted by screamndemon69

the guitar arrived yeaterday - after Paypal suspended my account and charged me back for the $950. i am lucky that the buyer is honest and is sending me the money back.
lessons learned:
NEVER send something without insurance
NEVER send something economy post - always send 5 day service
NEVER send something w/out proof of delivery
i hope others will learn from my stupid mistakes and not go thru the same stress that i have for the last couple months over this.
today is a happier day - now i'm on pins and needles until the cheque arrives.
thanks for the kind words and support guys.

+1

Regards

André

[rgr]

I only ship USPS Airmail (4-10 days) internationally, there is too much that can go wrong in the 6-8 week economy service IMO (usually it's spelled FRUSTRATION on the buyer's part). Stuff usually gets hung up in customs now days too, so it's just too long to wait. International buyers (in and out of the US) have to understand that sometimes customs can take a couple of weeks to clear stuff in today's world.