Matt's not "All That"

[Jem77BRMRowner]

I won't be a jerk and post this in a reply to his ad for a Jem77BRMR, and I hope this is not considered a rip, but information to work with. I have seen all the gushing about how great Matt's Music is and I have had a different experience. Matt may be a great guy and isn't rude or anything, but I wont buy a guitar from him again. I know he will match anybody's advertised price for gear-most dealers will, as low prices matter to buyers and dealers are forced to price match in order to keep up with online retailers (I know that Musicians Friend is the WalMart of music). My experience with him is this; during several visits to his shop, he was seemingly not interested in seeing if I needed any help or had any questions. Not a big deal. I knew that I wanted a specific guitar. It took a long time to purchase it, as he had another customer in the shop in addition to me, but had us wait as he was in the middle of selling his motorcycle to a couple that was in there. Don't mind me, I'm just a potential customer! He had one on the rack and price matched with an online retailer-again, no problem. The problem was that the guitar was poorly set up, and my experience with other dealers is that they usually ask you how you want it set up and restring it and clean it up for you prior to you spending hundreds of dollars. Matt was happy to just locate what he thought was the correct accessories (Wrong Bar) and let me walk out with it. After trying my best to get a FACTORY action, I had to take it to him to get it set up, as the action was really high and couldn't get lower without buzzing. I explained my situation and his solution was to send it out for setup to the tune of $65! No concern for a brand new guitar having issues, no "I'm sorry you spent good money here and have issues with an instrument, let me see what I can do to take care of it". Worse off, when it returned 2weeks later (After requesting that the tech call me before any work was performed to let me know what was needed, I only got a call from Matt when it returned to his shop), it was in worse shape! Is it me? Did I have unreasonable expectations? I took a few minutes and checked out a few other Ibanez guitars to see if I was looking for an action that was not possible. Big mistake! Every guitar I checked out was poorly set up, with dead strings (all of these are new guitars, mind you) and one, a nice black S520EX had the dead strings fretting out hard across the entire fretboard! I sent my guitar back to the tech and when it returned, it was acceptable. A friend of mine went in there and got the same feeling as me, that he makes plenty of money and is interested in ringing you up, because customer service doesn't matter. My experience in other music stores the Boston area is that they are happy to see you come in the door, and want to help you get the right equipment and that you're happy with it and to build a relationship with you to make you a return customer. I think Matt gets VOLUME and doesn't need customer service. I would rather get a guitar from musicians friend or another dealer. Electronic equipment and other stuff that doesn't require setup may be a better bet, but after buying a Jem77BRMR from musicians friend and having the setup quite good when it arrived, I'd be skeptical getting an axe after it's sat in Matt's music for little while. I sincerely hope that my experience was an anomaly, and that Matt's music does well by putting the customer first, and that anyone who buys from Matt has a great experience. Take this for what it's worth. Thanks for making it to the end-

[jemsite]

Originally Posted by Jem77BRMRowner

Did I have unreasonable expectations?

Yes.

That doesn't change the fact you felt slighted as a paying customer, but you did have unreasonable expectations regarding setup, etc. Most local shops and major shops would offer similar experiences.

I've been posting here for a long time how ibanez setup and guitars need major tweaking and this falls upon deaf ears. People like Rich (with hours and hours of excessive - and often free on his part - setup) who offer tremendous services over the years masks this obvious fact.

I don't think it's unreasonable that people are charged $75-150 for a "killer setup" as most ibanez players seem to feel is a birthright on a $500 RG or $2500 super RG (ie. the newest JEM ripoff you purchased).

IMHO customers should be treated well and made felt important if they spend $1 or $10,000. I do this in my biz regardless of my expected reimbursment rate (which often times is zilch or pennies on the dollar). I find most music dealerships and musicians lacking in that aspect, but hopefully this will change over time.

Best of luck... glen

[Jem77BRMRowner]

Thanks Glen. Sadly, I read an early reply/apology from Matt when he first joined Jemsite after my post. He WAS concerned about how others reacted to his actions/words. Perhaps MY problem should've been addressed to Matt privately, but as it was recent, I don't think that I would conduct myself respectfully. Regrettably, I may have been a little too harsh on Matt. Feel free to delete this thread or keep it Glen, at your discretion. Thanks again-Rob

[beyblade]

Thanks for the heads up. It's beyond me that with Rich's reputation for product, service, second to none set up, attention to detail, unparalled product knowledge, after sales service and exceptional value for money, why anyone would want to go anywhere other than ibanezrules.com, especially when buying a jem?

[jim777]

I personally never expect a new guitar to be setup at all. I can count on one hand the guitars I've gotten that were setup from the start, and I've gotten well over 100 at this point. I'm not speaking to service here, only on what I expect from a manufacturer.

[Jem77BRMRowner]

This may come from a reference point that is not as saavy as others, but instead of starting another thread regarding your classification of my "choice" of Jem as a "Jem Ripoff",I'll just ask; Other than the fact that it has Breed pickups and no intricate fretboard inlays, A rosewood fretboard, and no scalloped frets, What makes it NOT a Jem? I realize that it doesn't have a tremsetter-none do, and no light up fretboard (Are there stability/reliability issues with this feature anyway?), but Vai plays it and I'm sure it's birth was a result of Steve's request for a guitar built to these specs. I understand the animocity towards the 555 series, and I would love a Jem10, but I also really like the 7DBK for it's being fairly utilitarian as opposed to the 7WH, with it's soon to be worn off gold plating on its hardware. Does that make the DBK less of a Jem? Are there three classes of Jems?, The "Real" Jems (Jem10, 7WH, the 777 line etc.), The "I know they are labeled 'Jem', but shouldn't be" (7DBK and gulp... Jem77BRMR?), and the 555 series? I know it's all subjective, and if you're happy, you're happy, but if Vai has played it and not totally changed it, ie: replaced the neck with a scalloped fretboard, or doesn't use Breed P'Ups, (I don't expect LED's in any jem). Why is it not a Jem?

[jemsite]

It's a jem, i'm just saying the price is hugely disproportionate to the quality which you are getting compared to other ibanez products, disregarding asthetics. in short you paid almost $1000-1500 extra for it's looks... glen

[King Knall]

And what makes you think Vai doesn't use the Breeds?

IMHO to me the DBK and BRMR are the 'modern' version of the Jems. As long as nobody counts the 555 and 333 as 'real Jems', I've nothing to argue about.

The BRMR is still a Jem. As long as Vai had a hand in designing it, has most of the typical Jem features, and branded as a Jem by Ibanez. it's a Jem.

My thoughts.

[buddroyce]

Why some music shops don't have thier own techs/employees onsite to do a quick setup when a customer buys an instrument is beyond me. But then again it depends on who owns the shop.

Thank god I'm my own tech.

[The Euphor]

Buying a new guitar without a proper setup is like buying a new car without any gas. "Oh, and you would have to get some gas before you can move it."

Unheard of in this country, with fewer people and less shops, I would think the number of items moved is about the same. Getting a setup is a part of the reason why people don't shop online.

[jemsite]

Apples vs oranges. Your "country" is not as large and vast as the USA. You buy a "proper setup" Ibanez from an authorized, local dealer here in the largest worldwide market (metro NYC). Please reconsider your analogy with gas/car as it is silly ...glen

[The Euphor]

Originally Posted by jemsite

Your "country" is not as large and vast as the USA.

Neither is it based on capitalism.

Originally Posted by jemsite

Please reconsider your analogy with gas/car as it is silly ...glen

Can you play a guitar with a poor setup, if you push it you could. Can you drive a car without gas, not really, but you could push it. Silly? Just as silly as selling guitars without proper setups to the customers satisfaction.

I don't doubt it's how things are done "over there", but it's far from good service.

[mattsmusic]

1) I would have appreciated if you had approached me in person before posting your dissatisfaction publicly.

2) I am but one person. The morning you were here I was the only one working in the shop and I had a guy standing in front of me with $8000.00 in cash to pay me for a motorcycle he had won on E-b-a-y. Normally I would have told you I'd be right with you, just to let you know I was aware you were waiting for me. In the event I didn't do this, I apologize.

3) I operate a music store that's full of guitars which are brand new. New guitars are particularly susceptible to heat and humidity changes. Because of this, during the dry months (Nov-Apr) we run 2 gigantic humidifiers that dump 15 gallons of water into the air every single day. If I recall, you purchased your guitar right after we had fired up the humidifiers for the first time this season. The change in humidity causes some of the guitars to need neck adjustments and setups, which we spend the next few weeks doing. We have a part time tech in house who does this and though it costs me a lot of money to get them all setup, it's necessary. We do our best to stay on top of this but the day every single guitar in here plays amazingly well is the day I'll see pigs fly by my window. With over 200 guitars in stock it just ain't gonna happen. Luckily it's an easy fix!

4) The reason I sent your guitar out for repair instead of having my in house guy do it, is because you had made a mess of it by trying to do the setup yourself. I wanted to make sure you were really happy with the end result so I sent your guitar to our guys in Lawrence called High Tech Repair. Although my in house guy is good, Steve at High Tech is widely regarded as one of the top guitar repair guys in the Boston area. As far as why he didn't call you to explain what work was being done is beyond me. You saw me request this on the repair tag I filled out when you were standing in front of me. I personally played your guitar when it came back from High Tech, and I thought it played GREAT. You're the customer though, so when you said you didn't like it I gave it back to Steve, and he tweaked it for you.

5) My reputation is EXTREMELY important to me and I'm sorry you aren't satisfied with your experience here. I always try to learn from my mistakes and your post will make me strive to do better next time.

Matt

Matt's Music Center
35 Pleasant St
Weymouth MA 02190 USA
781-335-0700
www.mattsmusic.com

[David McCarroll]

Well, if everybody is out there busily trying to compete with online stores which have considerably lower overheads (due might I add to customer expectations of the lowest possible purchase price), you can't really expect much more - that Matt is willing to apologise here to you on this forum is pretty decent of him I think - you really should have taken your ills to him personally first, then, if you still felt hard done by, post it, not before. At least with Matt you actually had A REAL PERSON to go back to and voice your dissatisfaction, and who was willing to make amends.

There seems to be an endemic totally unrealistic expectation (which we have the PC market to thank for) that you can buy anything at the absolute lowest price/lowest margin possible - but in the PC business you get ZERO customer after sales service, guitars are not PCs - they do need constant tweaking, and they are a very personal item, unlike a Dell breadbox - Rich has exactly the right attitude - if you want a quality instrument which is tweaked to perfection before it leaves the shop, you can expect to pay for it - I'm sure you value your personal time as much as Matt or Rich do, and it's their time which is soaked up in adjusting guitars - yeah, it's their job, I know, but selling a thousand dollar guitar an hour goes a much longer way towards paying their overheads than doing free setups and changing strings!

Anyway - enjoy your new guitar, a DBK is every bit as much a JEM as a VWH or a 777 - and my DNA came with Breeds (and they sound fantastic!)- isn't it a JEM by this definition??

Cheers and Happy Christmas,
David McCarroll
Sydney, Australia

[ryanb]

I have been completely happy with my dealings with Matt (though online, since I am not in the area). I would never expect a good setup on any new from the factory guitar(esp. Ibanez). Especially true when you are talking about a dealer competing for the lowest price out there. You are selecting the low price over paying extra for the setup. Then do your own setup or take it to your favorite local guy(or if local, take advantage of the setup service Matt offers). Plus, setups are very subjective. You could get a "pro setup" on any guitar and still find it not to your liking (which sounds like what happened to you). I think Matt is sincerely trying to provide what is best for his customers, and that is appreciated since it is lacking in many businesses these days (everyone gets overworked and understaffed at times). I don't think it is reasonable to expect much more without paying some premium for it.