Need help/opinions with regards to Western Union Rich?

[tobe]

Sorry if there is a bunch about this subject already, I did a search and found only 2 related posts, and they did not really answer my particular question. Which is a follows:

Is it safe to accept Money through Western Union? I read the literature at their website, and it did not really make me feel any better, of course they aren't gonna come out and say, "Yes, you can get screwed by using our service"

My specific situation is this: I have an item on a auction site for sale. I have been contacted by a bidder from Germany, willing to pay the buy it now price-when there they has yet to be a single bid on the item! This automatically has me concerned...its seems the scammers always tried to appear to people's greed...

here are the persons 2 e mails to me-->

first contact:

hi,
i would like to use the "buy it now" option on your 550TI.
But you stated in your description that you will only ship
to the US.I am living in Berlin,Germany.Would you ship it
to me if I cover additional shipping costs and pay immediatly through WU or Money-Gram?
thanks

e mail #2hi,
hope you won´t mind some haggling:
I intend to use ´Buy it now´. You offered free shipping (within the US)
for
bids over $800 - should be worth $25.
You also offered to throw in your precious carrying bag for bids over
$900.
You may skip the bag, would only add weight to the package.
Shipping to Berlin,Germany is about $40-50, depending on the weight and
using USPS Priority Air.
So, how about I transfer you $901 tomorrow and you ship to me without
additional
charges? Do we can agree on this?
thanks for considering,

<--

sorry this is not a bout a guitar, but before I agree to anything I thought I'd ask some of the experienced international shippers, ie Rich, if they know if you can get scammed when receiving payments through WU

thanks in advance, Tobe

[Rich]

AFAIK WU screws themselves if there any kind of fraud involved. I asked them straight out and they have said "once you pick up the money it's yours and there's nothing we can do about it".

[tobe]

Thanks Rich for the valuable info. That is kinda what I thought, but was still a bit warry. It seems strange to me some one is willing to pay the buy it now price, when no one has even played a bid on the item yet. Thanks again for your time, Tobe

[gkelm]

I'm not Rich, but I could ad that I've received a couple money orders internationally via WU and it worked fine...quick too. I think shipping from OR to Germany will be closer to $80+. All teh best with your transaction.
Greg

[tobe]

thank you both for your advice. After reading the person's latest e mail, I think the warning bells that went off at first were right on the money...check this out -->


------------------------------------------------------------------------
**Subj: **
Re: Question for seller -- Item #2780769416

*
Hi,

there´s a more than slightly problem with WU direct money transfer:
eBay wouldn´t cover this payment method by it´s fraud protection
program. So, if you´re a bad guy, my $ 901 would be lost completely.
But then, eBay would only cover $300 if I´d use a kosher payment
method.....
Being a trained eBay_between_the_lines_reader, I think you are a honest
guy, who only needs some cash quickly.
Considering all that, I make a new proposition:
I´ll transfer the money via WU and will send you a scan of the
form,hiding
the MTCN. You will pack the PB, bring it to USPS and send me the
receipt-
slip via mail. Then I will disclose the MTCN - agreed?
weo
ps: if you send a package of used shareware CD´s - hell - I would be a
disabled between_the _lines-reader!
<--

I think I might be a little insulted by this individual's lack of faith in my intellegence!!!
So I don't think I'll be doing any business with this person. Sure I'll mail ya the item w/o payment...yeah right!!!

[Rich]

He's so savy he forgot the read the lines when he was reading between them! You only have $175 of "coverege" with ebay! LOL

[dp15655]

Here's some input from an international buyer

I could agree with the first mail - it sounds more or less as I would state it. I know a lot of sellers put "US only", but have found that many are willing to work with you, if you compensate for the extra effort and shipping... Of course, some just won't take the risk or hassle, which I don't have a problem with either.

As for his last mail: I don't think he's trying to set you up, he's just being too cautious - the whole "hiding the MTCN" scheme is overly complicated and does add to the overall paranoia that seems to become part of all internet transactions...

I understand the buyer's concern, but that doesn't mean that there aren't other risks involved (I usually worry more about the package being lost or damaged in transit). The international character of the transaction doesn't make it any more riskful - h*ll, there's even people within the US, within the same city who were ripped off through Eb*y !

Actually, the Eb*y rating system does have its merits, and "Caveat Emptor" goes a long way: if it looks to good to be true, it probably isn't true. Inform yourself thoroughly about the goods, about all costs involved, set up a reliable line of communication outside of that throwaway Hotmail-account (I don't mind giving out my private phone number or e-mailaddress to certain sellers)... but show a little trust too, will you ?

/rant off

EDIT: I just noticed that it's not a guitar we're talking about, but an Apple Titanium. That's a different story: there are heaps of Eastern European (Romanian, Bosnian, ...) gangs operating from Germany, many haggling in things such as laptops, digicams, high-end cell phones and so on. They usually act as sellers, but it looks like they've started buying as well

[tobe]

Originally Posted by dp15655

Actually, the Eb*y rating system does have its merits, and "Caveat Emptor" goes a long way: if it looks to good to be true, it probably isn't true. Inform yourself thoroughly about the goods, about all costs involved, set up a reliable line of communication outside of that throwaway Hotmail-account (I don't mind giving out my private phone number or e-mailaddress to certain sellers)... but show a little trust too, will you ?

I understand what you are saying...but come on. The potential bidder keeps trying to change the terms s/he agreed upon in the first place. In this case I don't even have his e bay id, cuz he has yet to bid. I am the one with a lot to lose. If I send this unit to this person in Germany, I might as well just through it in the trash and save my self the hassle of going to the post office Its both parties responsibilty to research the transaction, and from the begining I had a bad feeling about this one. Why would someone want to pay the buy it now price, when NO ONE has even bid on it yet? Furthermore, I don't think the charger, or even the computer itself would work in germany...wrong voltage...hmmmmm

EDIT: I just noticed that it's not a guitar we're talking about, but an Apple Titanium. That's a different story: there are heaps of Eastern European (Romanian, Bosnian, ...) gangs operating from Germany, many haggling in things such as laptops, digicams, high-end cell phones and so on. They usually act as sellers, but it looks like they've started buying as well

To me there is no difference. I am not saying everyone in Europe that tries to buy on e bay is a thief---thats stupid....but I am always careful no matter what the item is, and if that insults a potential buyer...well I am sorry...
Thanks again for all the advice!

oh did ja like how the e mail all of asudden mentions that the person knows "I need the money in a hurry"? I am not in such a hurry that I would like to give the unit away for free.....Do these scams actually work on people? One other thing..now I just a got an email through my e bay account different than the one I use for everything else...and surprise surprise I got another e mail from Germany from a banker from Nigeria...wanted to deposit 20 million in my bank account Ha-ha-ha-ha!!!! Why don't these people try things that actually might sound feasible? done ranting now!!

[dp15655]

Actually, the Eb*y rating system does have its merits, and "Caveat Emptor" goes a long way: if it looks to good to be true, it probably isn't true. Inform yourself thoroughly about the goods, about all costs involved, set up a reliable line of communication outside of that throwaway Hotmail-account (I don't mind giving out my private phone number or e-mailaddress to certain sellers)... but show a little trust too, will you ?

Actually, Tobe... I was addressing the potential BUYER, since I was assuming that the was just an honest but overly worried buyer.
In retrospect, it may have been a little unclear

[tobe]

Originally Posted by dp15655

Actually, Tobe... I was addressing the potential BUYER, since I was assuming that the was just an honest but overly worried buyer.
In retrospect, it may have been a little unclear

Gotcha!!

[tobe]

Final update.

It seems like this guy is legit, even though every step of the way it seemed like he was trying to screw me...

He agreed to sending the money through WU first before I shipped him anything. This morning I got an e mail from him saying that WU couldn't agree on the conversion rate Which made me supicious again, but I went to a Money Gram location, and behold the money was there. Of course they didn't have enough cash on hand so I had to take a money order from them. Since its MLK day the bank is closed, so tomorrow I will take it to the bank and see what happens. Thanks again for the advice, Tobe

[pikapikapi]

hey rich, what are some other "safe" ways to recieve money from a buyer online? paypal? usps money order? is there anyway to get cheated on from those ways? thanks!

[Rich]

Bank to bank wire transfer, Western Union, cash through Paypal [I still don't trust somebody couldn't get a stolen credit card account opened] all about as safe as it gets.

[Jeroenn]

Hi,

there´s a more than slightly problem with WU direct money transfer:
eBay wouldn´t cover this payment method by it´s fraud protection
program. So, if you´re a bad guy, my $ 901 would be lost completely.
But then, eBay would only cover $300 if I´d use a kosher payment
method.....
Being a trained eBay_between_the_lines_reader, I think you are a honest
guy, who only needs some cash quickly.
Considering all that, I make a new proposition:
I´ll transfer the money via WU and will send you a scan of the
form,hiding
the MTCN. You will pack the PB, bring it to USPS and send me the
receipt-
slip via mail. Then I will disclose the MTCN - agreed?
weo
ps: if you send a package of used shareware CD´s - hell - I would be a
disabled between_the _lines-reader!
<--

The correct answer to this would be:

Hell no.

[Rich]

Nobody said anything about ebay, just how to make sure the cash recieved was "good".