Patrick SIMS (custom shop in TN, USA) experiences

psywaltz · #1 03-18-2009, 11:04 AM

hi there, i`m jens from germany and i just wanna tell you my story with patrick sims. Sorry, for opening another SCS therad, but this guy has ripped me off. i have seen, that the big SCS thread was closed and i can´t read x sites of post, to find out, why the thread is closed and why he is no longer vendor for the JEMsite.

there is a second cause, to open this thread. this is the third time (it´s my own fault) that i was ripped of by an american luthier. the first time was, that thy guys from LEGACY ONE ripped me off. i have lost 300USD, than chris woods, he still hasn´t payed my refund (i´m waiting now more than a year) and now, patrick sims.

because of the bad experineces with these other guys i look for someone with a good reputation, to built me swirled sevenstring body. here on the jemssite, a lot of user told, that patrick is a good and smart guy and he really did great work.

i wrote a mail to him, we cleared everything and so i orderd this RG shaped, 7string body with a blue/black/white/purple swirl, with black picasso grafix. this was in november. he wrote, that he will finish the work at the end of dezember. i heard nothing from him, till i wrote a mail in the middle of january, asking him, whats up? he immediatelly wrote back, that he has difficults with the clearcoat, but he will finish the work in the upcoming two weeks. this was the last mail i became. i wrote him countless mails through his page, trought the jemsite and through maypace....but nothing. i have no chance (its the same **** as with legacy one)....

has anybody made similar experineces with patrick?

has anybody a advice, what to do?

thanx guys!

joesatch · #2 03-18-2009, 11:14 AM

He's had my bodies and $$ for more than a year. I tracked him down on sevenstring.org and he replied very defensive about finishing my work. I just hope to get my stuff back someday.

Brosa · #3 03-18-2009, 11:14 AM

I bought a green Carvin from Patrick last year. Although Patrick is a true salesman ( he tends to bend reality a bit in his favor) he does come through eventually.

If Patrick says he will do it, i'm sure he will do it. If he gives you a time quote: it's probably way of, like most vendors/ shops. Just hang in there and ask him (politely) for an update. Stalking the man with e-mails isn't going to help you.

Good luck and i hope you get your swirled body soon.

Sam.

psywaltz · #4 03-18-2009, 11:43 AM

i just think, that there is no excuse for not answering on serveral emails since january! ... i have to think, that he will ripp me of... it´s a kind of helplessness. he just have to write me a short notic, what is going on, just:"sorry man, will finishing your body soon..." something like that, just, that i know, everything is allright. i was friendly in my mails everytime, but sometimes, that means now, he taxes my patience.

**jemsite** · #5 03-18-2009, 11:51 AM

Patrick was not removed for fraud, etc. I'd be shocked if your order didn't eventually arrive. He did state what was clearly obvious to me as a neutral observer... he had more business than he could handle and a banner space here was a financial waste plus further created a backlog. I believe his communication and on-line posting style (very defensive, quick to attack) to be counter-productive to good business & customer relations. I've told him that as have countless others.

Unfortunately many vendors become poor communicators as they miss deadlines. Being overseas (not in the USA) also imho puts a customer in a distinct disadvantage which is absurd but a reality... glen

psywaltz · #6 03-18-2009, 12:17 PM

thanx you all... for the friendly words. i`m now a little pacified.

jb4674 · #7 03-18-2009, 12:21 PM

I'm surprised none of these builders have learned from past incidents here on Jemsite and elsewhere, that they should not take on more work than they can physically handle. Regardless of whether or not Patrick had a banner here, if he had any sense in his mind and saw that he was getting piled up with work, he should have stopped taking orders altogether and finish them before he took on new ones and maybe even post updates on his website about the work he's doing.

While I'm not an affected party in this matter, I think that luthiers should exercise some kind of common sense so that people don't have to stalk them through emails, phone calls or any other means.

Jimmy

**moebius** · #8 03-18-2009, 12:26 PM

A good luthier does not always make a good business man/woman. Same can be true for many professions. Hopefully, everyone will get satisfaction at some point down the road.

jb4674 · #9 03-18-2009, 12:32 PM

Maybe it's time to set some rules up for any luthier that wants to do business exclusively at jemsite.

Jimmy

**jemsite** · #10 03-18-2009, 12:36 PM

Moebius nailed it.

Good idea jimmy but it's an open/free market. In patrick's case he openly spoke here of doing work for a major guitar vendor. What do you think that does for his time allocation for custom-shop work. Plus dealing with 1 company is alot easier than 50 companies (50 customers)... glen

toneboy · #11 03-18-2009, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moebius

A good luthier does not always make a good business man/woman. Same can be true for many professions. Hopefully, everyone will get satisfaction at some point down the road.

Truer words have never been spoken.

toneboy · #12 03-18-2009, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jb4674

Maybe it's time to set some rules up for any luthier that wants to do business exclusively at jemsite.

Jimmy

I understand why you feel this way but I'd be very surprised if Jemsite could give a builder/painter enough consistent work to make a living. Jemsite is a big site but the world is bigger still.

toneboy · #13 03-18-2009, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brosa

I bought a green Carvin from Patrick last year. Although Patrick is a true salesman ( he tends to bend reality a bit in his favor) he does come through eventually.

As a former salesman, I take offense to that. A true salesman doesn't bend reality. That's a BS artist.

Quote:

If Patrick says he will do it, i'm sure he will do it. If he gives you a time quote: it's probably way of, like most vendors/ shops.

I agree that he will get the job done...eventually....so don't dont' hold your breath. However, there are builders/painters out there who do meet the deadlines they promise and deliver work on par with the best ones out there. Heck, I had a guitar custom painted in 5.5 weeks and I'm having the same guy build be a complete guitar, from scratch, that will be done in about 6 weeks from the date I ordered it.

Quote:

Just hang in there and ask him (politely) for an update. Stalking the man with e-mails isn't going to help you.

Agreed. All you're doing to do is push his buttons which are very sensitive, I might add.

Just get your guitar done and back and find someone else who is less hassle to deal with.

forest4 · #14 03-20-2009, 05:46 PM

Yes, I know the feeling of frustration waiting for a guitar or paint job from Patrick. He has had mine for 10 months now, but to be fair, a timeline was never discussed. I have spoken with him several times (Fridays seem to be the best time to reach him by phone) and he has always been gracious to me. The mailbox has been full sometimes, but a couple of days later it's open. I think he does tend to be a little optimistic about finishing time though. I have read through all the post's and seen the comments from people who are all worked up about how long it is taking or how they have been dealt with, but I have seen alot of the work and I doubt if I will be dissapointed. Some of the stuff is amazing. Sure I would like to have it back sooner, but I am giving him the benefit of the doubt considering his circumstances. I can't wait to post pics of it.

My two cents.

toneboy · #15 03-20-2009, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by forest4

He has had mine for 10 months now

You can get the same quality paint job done in 5-6 weeks from other vendors. I have and so have others but at this point, you're in for a penny, in for a pound.

Quote:

but to be fair, a timeline was never discussed.

Anyone doing any work for should always give a delivery date. You're entering in to a contract. If at any point you decide you're tired of waiting, that's when the honeymoon will be over. We've seen this happen on more than one occasion.

Quote:

I think he does tend to be a little optimistic about finishing time though.

It's not a matter of optimism but rather a mix of unrealistic/broken promises and poor communication (or complete lack of it).

Quote:

I have read through all the post's and seen the comments from people who are all worked up about how long it is taking or how they have been dealt with, but I have seen alot of the work and I doubt if I will be dissapointed. Some of the stuff is amazing.

Most of his is work is top notch but not all of it. Some of it is also illegal and unethical (converting an Ephipone Les Paul headstock to look exactly just like a Gibson? Regarding delivery dates, it's not always how long it takes but how many times you're told "I'll finish it next week" and it isn't. Your hopes are raised then dashed upon the rocks. Who needs the drama when there are others who can do the same quality of work, in less time and hit their delivery date.

Quote:

Sure I would like to have it back sooner, but I am giving him the benefit of the doubt considering his circumstances.

Benefit of the doubt for what circumstances? Not knowing how to deal with customer issues properly? Every good painter I know of gets a lot of work but some of them know how to handle it well and some do not. Based upon Mr. Sims history here, I would place him in the later category.