Rick Toone - A luthier to end all luthiers?

[GuitarBizarre]

Simply put, I've followed this guys blog for a LONG time now, and frankly, his work astounds me. I have NEVER seen anyone work wood so precisely nor come up with so many concepts that make normal luthiers look traditionalist, regardless of what they're making.

Who else knows about this guy, and more importantly, do any of the luthiers and vendors here know of his work, especially since a HUGE amount of it is free to use, due to his dedication to 'open source' luthiery, and his participations in http://www.elutherie.org/

Edit: His website: http://www.ricktoone.com/

I particularly like the fact one of his current projects is a floyd rose equipped, MIDI capable semi-hollow body, and that he takes everything to illogical extremes. One of his most recent blogs about shielding has him not just making a cavity and shielding it, it has him routing a chamber within which he places a fully grounded enclosure for the control made of solid copper.

[Manticore]

these things are always pretty, but you never see anyone playing them in public,
they rarely live up to expectations, except as art pieces.
not speaking of your guy in particular, just exotic guitar makes in general.

[GuitarBizarre]

True, but then again, art piece guitars rarely have as much thought as this put into their construction and whatnot, they're just given a traditional look, a unique identifier then let loose. This guy is a true custom luthier from end to end, with a very low output, its no wonder his work isn't famous.

[Manticore]

well to be famous you have to make a guitar people want to play , not hang on the wall
nothing against art projects or individualists, mind you
there are hundreds of these makers around.
I might spend the money for the living room but not for something I need to rely on,

[GuitarBizarre]

Originally Posted by Manticore

well to be famous you have to make a guitar people want to play , not hang on the wall
nothing against art projects or individualists, mind you
there are hundreds of these makers around.
I might spend the money for the living room but not for something I need to rely on,

You're missing the point, you're basically saying 'Because he isn't a big maker, theres no chance his product can be superior to name brand guitars, its a lot of money for nothing'

I'll agree his product is very expensive, but the fact is you can see from the website and the blog alone that he puts an extraordinary amount of thought care and skill into building his guitars. I'd say his guitars certainly ARE something people want to play.

Personally, I don't understand why a builder has to be famous before he can be GOOD. Jaden, Ernie and Al aren't exactly 'famous' outside of jemsite, but I don't see you claiming they don't make quality stuff.

[Manticore]

Originally Posted by GuitarBizarre

You're missing the point, you're basically saying 'Because he isn't a big maker, theres no chance his product can be superior to name brand guitars, its a lot of money for nothing'

I'll agree his product is very expensive, but the fact is you can see from the website and the blog alone that he puts an extraordinary amount of thought care and skill into building his guitars. I'd say his guitars certainly ARE something people want to play.

Personally, I don't understand why a builder has to be famous before he can be GOOD. Jaden, Ernie and Al aren't exactly 'famous' outside of jemsite, but I don't see you claiming they don't make quality stuff.

no I'm actually saying the opposite,
money is never a real consideration for most people but the consideration is a real desire to have something under your fingers;
when people start posting that they bought so & so art guitar and now " I haven't put a new set of strings on my rg550 in 6 months" I'll pay attention.
no, what I'm really saying is;
every art guitar is an experiment an experiment that rarely succeeds except as art.

[GuitarBizarre]

Yes but you have no proof whatsoever that thats the case here, and everything I can see says that his guitars are absolutely wonderful. I don't see why you have to bring him down on that basis. Not to mention you're not a luthier as far as I know, so I don't see how you can point out any inconsistencies in his designs.

[ola_strandberg]

I am a good friend of Rick's so am obviously biased, but he has been an inspiration to me as well for a long time and also before we became friends.

I would like to make a couple of observations:
1. Each instrument built by hand by a luthier is intended to be tailored for a specific purpose or musician. Since sound and playability are subjective, it is not possible to say what is "good" and what is "bad", only if the musician the instrument was built for likes it. The instrument will be tuned and adjusted by the luthier (sometimes experminentally) until it meets this criteria.
2. Producing guitars industrially is equally an experiment for each produced instrument. It's just that some manufacturers are better than others at minimizing the guesswork and maintain repeatability and consistency to produce instrument "X" so that anyone who likes instrument "X" will like every instance of it. Quality control weeds out lemons so that they never hit the market.
3. Rick and I both utilize flavors of Creative Commons licensing for our works, which means that they are public but not necessary free-for-alls, but involving the global musician community and fostering "micro partnerships" will ultimately lead to better instruments.
4. Just like in Formula 1, the experiments and innovations made as one-offs on the high end lead to evolution in the mainstream and serves an important purpose.

Thanks Rick!

Cheers,
Ola Strandberg
Development blog: http://guitarworks.thestrandbergs.com/

[shreddersymphony]

Cool stuff, but what do you need a SOLID copper cavity for...none of my guitars have so much as a squeak of noise even at obscene volumes, and they all just have thin copper shielding on the inside of the cavity.

[Manticore]

Originally Posted by GuitarBizarre

Yes but you have no proof whatsoever that thats the case here, and everything I can see says that his guitars are absolutely wonderful. I don't see why you have to bring him down on that basis. Not to mention you're not a luthier as far as I know, so I don't see how you can point out any inconsistencies in his designs.

never said I was a guitar maker
I am a consumer
you wanted to talk about one off guitars, so we are talking about them
seems like your the one with an axe to grind so to speak.

[Manticore]

Originally Posted by shreddersymphony

Cool stuff, but what do you need a SOLID copper cavity for...none of my guitars have so much as a squeak of noise even at obscene volumes, and they all just have thin copper shielding on the inside of the cavity.

solid copper control shielding goes back to the 50's
was used primarily on hollow body electrics
it worked to a degree

[shreddersymphony]

Originally Posted by Manticore

solid copper control shielding goes back to the 50's
was used primarily on hollow body electrics
it worked to a degree

Right, but why is it needed now when a little copper foil lining in the cavity is enough to completely kill any noise?

[Manticore]

Originally Posted by shreddersymphony

Right, but why is it needed now when a little copper foil lining in the cavity is enough to completely kill any noise?

in a word
it's not
looking at his pictures I would say that he's one who believes modern pickups and controls can't give proper tone so he goes back in time. many people do this.
it's the first leg in the journey of his art guitar hangin on a wall instead of being used to rip out some killer ya ya's
he would be much better served by taking some lessons in 21st century RF shielding and investigating the application of capacitors instead of trying to impress with obsolete (and properly forgotten) knowledge

[shreddersymphony]

Originally Posted by Manticore

in a word
it's not
looking at his pictures I would say that he's one who believes modern pickups and controls can't give proper tone so he goes back in time. many people do this.
it's the first leg in the journey of his art guitar hangin on a wall instead of being used to rip out some killer ya ya's
he would be much better served by taking some lessons in 21st century RF shielding and investigating the application of capacitors instead of trying to impress with obsolete (and properly forgotten) knowledge

Yeah exactly. This seems like more artsy over function-y to me.

[GuitarBizarre]

Isn't that more a question of who buys it rather than who makes it? All the work he's done so far has been for experimentation tonally, or for the customers needs. If those customers hang it on a wall then so be it but thats nothing to do with Rick.

Personally I know I'm one of those guys who would play a guitar of any worth in any situation. Possibly the only exceptions would be guitars that now exist as investments, like 57 les pauls and the like. Any new guitar isn't going to have that kind of collectors value, so I know I would play it.

Edit - As for more efficient ways to do what he's doing, I think he's the one you should contact about that. He may well have read what you said already but the comments page on his blog is a good place to start if you want to help him improve what he's doing. As far as I can tell he takes his criticisms onboard if they're given, seeing as he's already linked to this page from his blog. http://www.ricktoone.com/2009/11/jemsite.html