sending as a gift?

Soup Kitchen Studios · #1 07-27-2003, 02:53 AM

I sold a guitar to someone in australia. They want me to send it as a gift or include a receipt for a very low amount so that they don't get stuck with taxes.

I know this isn't ethical, but I don't want to lose the sale.

My question is, does it work and does it have any potential risks (insurance?)

spacenuke · #2 07-27-2003, 04:25 AM

I would say just do whatever the buyer wants, but have them understand that if you declare it to be of a lower value, that pretty much means you can only insure it for that value too. in that case, have them agree that should the guitar be damaged in transit, they'll just have to deal with getting whatever it's insured for.

I think the risk is pretty much just the insurance bit, but i'm sure you'll pack the guitar really well. The US Customs wouldn't care about the value since the item is leaving the country, so you're ok there. you wouldn't have to worry about the Australian side since they're not going to track you down.

I say as long as you get your money, just make the buyer happy. don't worry about the ethics as long as no one gets hurt.

Jamie · #3 07-27-2003, 06:32 AM

I don't think its ethical for a government to screw you on taxes, inflation and misrunning the economy, not to mention spending your taxes on £20,000 carpets and £50,000 desks, to the extent that it is more than 50% cheaper to buy something in another country, and then tax you on doing so. If they're allowed to sell arms to another country without penalties for detriment to world peace, why should ordinary people be penalised for importing harmless musical instruments?

Also note that sending as a gift (definitely from US to UK) didn't work when I had a guy do it for me with a $3000 amplifier, I got stung big-time. But I couldn't afford to send it without insuring it, he suggested the gift thing.

I ship a lot of instruments here from the US, my GAS wouldn't take buying them in the UK even if there was more than 2 or three of each model in this useless country!

I generally have them valued at $300 which gives me a bit of recompense if one gets lost. Now I've brought in 6 or so, I've made the money back in unpaid tax if I ever lose one.

However if it is irreplaceable or rare in any way, tell him you recommend he values it to its full amount, to cover the potential costs of tracking another one down.

Soup Kitchen Studios · #4 07-27-2003, 02:42 PM

Thanks for the tips... I don't mean this to be rude, but please keep personal opinions aside. I should have clarified my first statement; I find it unethical to not pay your taxes.

Rich · #5 07-27-2003, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Swift

Thanks for the tips... I don't mean this to be rude, but please keep personal opinions aside. I should have clarified my first statement; I find it unethical to not pay your taxes.

So if you were importing something from overseas and knew you'd have to pay 10% with UPS but pay 0% EMS you'd opt for UPS?

caprile · #6 07-27-2003, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich

So if you were importing something from overseas and knew you'd have to pay 10% with UPS but pay 0% EMS you'd opt for UPS?

I've heard about that EMS 'loophole'...any estimation of how often does it happen?

Rich · #7 07-27-2003, 04:07 PM

In the US it's a 100% loophole, customs are never charged on postal shipments. This does not hold true for other countries

Jamie · #8 07-27-2003, 04:20 PM

I don't think its unethical to pay taxes, my privately owned company pays over £100K PA in tax. I do think its unethical that the global market only exists in an unpenalised sense for markets which are wholly unethical, and the private buyer has to subsidise these! Didn't mean to cause offence, but import tax should not be part of your contribution as a citizen to the running of your country IMHO...

littlegreenman · #9 07-27-2003, 04:45 PM

On the occasion that I ship overseas, I suggest using ONLY FedEx overnight. yes the shipping is expensive, but I have more faith in sending something overnight at a low value, than insuring for full value and shipping some method that takes a week or two. Should any of my customers request that I declare the item below value, I send an email where I state ALL responsibility is on the customer once the item leaves my hands. If something happens to a package that is not fully insured at value, I will not be responsible for it in any way shape or form. FedEx is the best way to ship overseas IMO.

littlegreenman · #10 07-27-2003, 04:46 PM

oh yeah, typically, declared as a gift will only make a difference on an item of $100 or less. Anything over $100 you'll still get stung usually

Jamie · #11 07-27-2003, 04:48 PM

Second that. I don't know for sure but I can't help feeling that a package getting sent country-to-country in 1-2 days rather than <into the warehouse, held until enough similar sized packages arrive, into the carton, into the plane, held in the destination country until anybody can be bothered putting it on the trunk> will have a better chance of arriving.

Make sure your buyer is fully aware of the risk he's taking...

LLL777 · #12 07-30-2003, 01:01 AM

You're the one signing the customs declaration when you ship. So you're lying about the value on the form. So it's not just unethical it's probably a criminal offense to make a knowing false declaration.

Does US customs/government care or does anything that's another matter.

Jamie · #13 07-30-2003, 05:38 AM

I wonder if it differs new to used. I can see a case for a new guitar having the SSP value by law, or with the usual retailers variance. But with a s/h guitar, the value you paid for it might not be the value to you for it to be lost in shipping, surely once its yours there is a case that you can choose the perceived value.

I also wonder if private sales aren't governed by this law if it exists, but business-to-business or business-to-consumer is?

darren wilson · #14 07-30-2003, 09:21 AM

You have to be extremely careful with this. I recently got a speaker cabinet shipped to Canada from the U.S. and the seller (without consulting me first) declared it as a "gift" with a value of $0.40.

Customs inspectors are not dumb. Big discrepancies like that get flagged and investigated, especially when they don't include the proper paperwork. It took a week for my cabinet to clear through customs. Had anything happened to it, i would have had to really fight to get my money back from the clowns i bought it from.

When i was speaking with the customs agent, they told me that both parties could be at risk for fraud, and the shipper could be barred from exporting to Canada.

Just a word of warning, but do what you feel is right.

Jamie · #15 07-30-2003, 09:32 AM

That's just craziness. I've sold a guitar for £1200 before and insured it for £200.

I think if a company is selling to you and doing it a lot, they should value it correctly or sensibly at least. If a company is importing a lot for profit, they should pay import tax as part of their trading tax.

But a private I don't feel should be taxed at a corporate rate....but you then take the risk of not getting your money back in the case of loss, and that's your risk....