What about this 3bay body seller?

[TicTac in my eye]

Originally Posted by OLIE_ROCKS_THE_80'S

Unlike many of herc's swirls "ANY" ATD will bring big money. herc is and always will be a cheap copy of the original ATD. No discerning collector or Ibanez enthusiast would ever take a herc swirl over an ATD if given the choice...
Made my case, argument closed!

So let me get this straight.
"Herc is and always will be a cheap copy of the original ATD"

Then you just talked MAJOR SH!T about Perle and every other swirler out there.

Your case has major holes.

Hahahaha LOL!

Sounds to me you have a personal vendetta against Herc. Like he stole your swirl or something. Come on admit it.

[OLIE_ROCKS_THE_80'S]

Originally Posted by Brosa

Actually, i would take a good Herc fede swirl anyday over a bad ATD one. And i am a huge ATD fan!

Just because Darren started it all, swirled the original Ibanez MC guitars and those guitars are therefore more collectable, doesn't mean Herc does a bad job...

No offence Olie, but you are stretching it a bit

No, you wouldn't! You'd get the ATD you don't like, you'd sell it for a lot of $ and you'd buy yourself a cheap herc copy swirl to your liking, that is what you would do!
I have only seen very few examples were herc's swirls were mindblowing and the funny thing is they were that good because some resembled ATD's very closely.

No offense taken!

[OLIE_ROCKS_THE_80'S]

Originally Posted by TicTac in my eye

So let me get this straight.
"Herc is and always will be a cheap copy of the original ATD"

Then you just talked MAJOR SH!T about Perle and every other swirler out there.

Your case has major holes.

Hahahaha LOL!

Sounds to me you have a personal vendetta against Herc. Like he stole your swirl or something. Come on admit it.

I would have never been foolish enough to work with herc because number one I don't like his swirls, two:his bad reputation, I don't I feel it would be worth the hassle of waiting years before you saw a project completed, that's why the guy is no longer in the business! so your speculation is the only thing with major holes here.

Nate would agree himself he is nowhere near the master ATD! and that's why I said in a good day when the stars are aligned and Nate put his heart in the swirl, he can come close to an ATD just like herc and others have done on ocassion but the original will always be the best.

[kathunk]

Nate Swirls are nice. The lack of precision in reference to a factory jem body is what keeps me from buying one. If you're trying to make a replica, then that would be a deal killer. It seems Olie must be Nates personal friend, because he always jumps to his defense. So be it. The only thing that I really dig about ATD's swirls over Herc's, Nates, or "out of the swirls" paint jobs is the dirty factor to them. I like all of the "flaws" , clumps, bubbles, and drips. The GMC I owned had a nice mix of both. The one that I'm building has a good mix of both too. I like all swirls to some point. Every one has their own flavor just because it's virtually impossible to duplicate all the variables the goes into swirling. Even Darren's swirls have different flavors. His DNA's definitely had a different flavor that the work he did 8 years earlier.

[MFB]

For me, I actually think ATD swirls aren't that great. While they may have 'written the book on swirls' they're just seem to...watery I guess. Where as to me, all the Herc and OOTS swirls I've seen have been very clean and precise, which is what I like.

Its kind of funny I say I don't like watery/chaotic swirls cause I really dig Ron Jarzombeks (http://www.ronjarzombek.com/purp.html) Nothing close to a MKR or anything but still essentially a swirl style

[GuitarBizarre]

Originally Posted by OLIE_ROCKS_THE_80'S

Nah! you don't know what you're talking about!!! How the heck can you even put herc in the same league as Darren...?!? Unlike many of herc's swirls "ANY" ATD will bring big money. herc is and always will be a cheap copy of the original ATD. No discerning collector or Ibanez enthusiast would ever take a herc swirl over an ATD if given the choice...
Made my case, argument closed!

Like hell. I've seen plenty of ATD swirls that look TERRIBLE, and some of Herc's are fantastic. Not to mention Al's recent, more chaotic swirls, are so tight and clean in spite of the hectic nature of them, that they outdo both in every way.

Don't assume that your preference is the same as everyone elses.

[TicTac in my eye]

Originally Posted by OLIE_ROCKS_THE_80'S

I would have never been foolish enough to work with herc because number one I don't like his swirls, two:his bad reputation, I don't I feel it would be worth the hassle of waiting years before you saw a project completed, that's why the guy is no longer in the business! so your speculation is the only thing with major holes here.

Nate would agree himself he is nowhere near the master ATD! and that's why I said in a good day when the stars are aligned and Nate put his heart in the swirl, he can come close to an ATD just like herc and others have done on ocassion but the original will always be the best.

Get over yourself.
Seriously the only major hole is you. I don't care what your preferences are the fact your disrespectful and rude makes everything that you spew out of your mouth is pure crap.
If I was Nate I distance myself from you cause you'd be hurting his business more than helping especially on this forum.

And Speaking of bad reputation how's Darren's rep doing these days? Since Herc's is sooooooo bad as you claim since your so smart. Where are the previous customers that are unhappy. I'm sure there are some that were unhappy or didn't want to wait but the majority so far seem satisfied or very happy with his work that I looked into.

Do us all a favor learn to have respect for a change and loose that childish demeanor.

[jem20thlover]

Nate's swirls are complete JUNK! JUNK! JUNK!!! I had two done and you could see the frickin wood through the swirls. I sent them off to a professional (Herc) and had them redone. Herc laughed when he got my strat body and said that whoever did the swirl (Herc didn't know who had done it) didn't even grain fill the body correctly.

Plus Nate can't figure out how go get paint in the lion's claw, total crap. Just check out the pics on 3bay, look closely at the lions claw and see the white shine through.

Ollie has a boner for Nate, and hates Herc, it's a fact. Just grab a cup of coffee and read through his posts, he's spent over half his time on this board bashing Herc and praising the mediocrity of Nate.

I'm not comparing Herc to ATD, ATD is the best, and my DNA #177 is my favorite guitar in the history of guitars, but like Herc or not, at least he does quality work and knows how to grain fill and get paint in the lions claw. You may not like his swirls, because hey, each swirl is a piece of art and beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but Herc is a better painter and knows how to get the paint to stick way better than Nate. I mean, just look at the crap Nate's sold on the bay. LOOK AT THE LIONS CLAWS!!!!!!! It's pathetic.

[Ayrton]

Considering that both ATD and Herc are no longer swirling anything, isn't all of this moot?

[OLIE_ROCKS_THE_80'S]

Originally Posted by jem20thlover

Nate's swirls are complete JUNK! JUNK! JUNK!!! I had two done and you could see the frickin wood through the swirls. I sent them off to a professional (Herc) and had them redone. Herc laughed when he got my strat body and said that whoever did the swirl (Herc didn't know who had done it) didn't even grain fill the body correctly.

Plus Nate can't figure out how go get paint in the lion's claw, total crap. Just check out the pics on 3bay, look closely at the lions claw and see the white shine through.

Ollie has a boner for Nate, and hates Herc, it's a fact. Just grab a cup of coffee and read through his posts, he's spent over half his time on this board bashing Herc and praising the mediocrity of Nate.

I'm not comparing Herc to ATD, ATD is the best, and my DNA #177 is my favorite guitar in the history of guitars, but like Herc or not, at least he does quality work and knows how to grain fill and get paint in the lions claw. You may not like his swirls, because hey, each swirl is a piece of art and beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but Herc is a better painter and knows how to get the paint to stick way better than Nate. I mean, just look at the crap Nate's sold on the bay. LOOK AT THE LIONS CLAWS!!!!!!! It's pathetic.

At least I am not trying to sell a crappy swirl copy for over $2,000 to some poor noob! your Herc swirl is freaking horrible man, please don't try to rip people off by trying to get rid of your work of art, just keep it if you like herc's work so much! if the Nate swirls are crap, why did you buy them...?!? couldn't you tell from the pictures??? I am very objective and I have only acknowledged, Nate does great work "sometimes" but there are other times his work is subpar and I've told him about it, yet, I guess people keep buying because Nate keeps churning bodies out and I don't see any negatives on his eb@y account so I guess he must be doing something right even if you don't like the swirls he is doing right now.

In the end though by your statement you agree with me. ATD was the first and will always be the best, always imitated never duplicated. If you like herc's work the more power to you, I don't give a toss but as Ayrton pointed out he is not in the biz anymore so...

[OLIE_ROCKS_THE_80'S]

Originally Posted by TicTac in my eye

Get over yourself.
Seriously the only major hole is you. I don't care what your preferences are the fact your disrespectful and rude makes everything that you spew out of your mouth is pure crap.
If I was Nate I distance myself from you cause you'd be hurting his business more than helping especially on this forum.

And Speaking of bad reputation how's Darren's rep doing these days? Since Herc's is sooooooo bad as you claim since your so smart. Where are the previous customers that are unhappy. I'm sure there are some that were unhappy or didn't want to wait but the majority so far seem satisfied or very happy with his work that I looked into.

Do us all a favor learn to have respect for a change and loose that childish demeanor.

Ok let me explain it to you like a 6 year old then:

1)You have not been here long enough and you have no freaking clue as to what transpired with the ATD deal so shut the heck up about things you know nothing about!

2)herc's rep has always been bad not so much because his work but because of his terribly long completion times, missed deadlines etc... Which is why he isn't in the biz anymore he is just burned out!

3)For the record I have nothing to gain by endorsing Nate's work. I just call it like I see it. He did some good work for me at one point and that's it. I have told Nate that some of his work and swirls are average at best and whether he takes the criticism and decides to act on it or not is his perogative. People keep buying bodies from him regardless, so I don't think what you or I say will hurt Nate's business, in fact he is a member here and I'm sure he will read this and get a kick out of it! so chill out pops and get a thicker skin!

[Rich]

Everybody chill.

Darren - went out of business after 3 hurricanes in a single year devastated his operation. His delay times were very long at best. I don't think anyhting got don't in less than 6 months and 1 year + was typical.

Herc - from what I gather never really recovered from his health issues and is why he's quitting again. He also had long delay times, healthy or not.

Nate - every now and then I'll see one and think it's looks killer, but the poor photography and his reputaion for poor bodies and lack of sealing [and the bact I really have no interest in anything but original Ibanez swirls] would keep me from buying one. But hey, no wait! [just the wait to get all the problems corrected, again, from what we all hear]

[OLIE_ROCKS_THE_80'S]

Originally Posted by GuitarBizarre

That good enough for you?

Hey noob you are past you bed time go to sleep before you mama catches swearing on the computer again!

[GuitarBizarre]

Originally Posted by OLIE_ROCKS_THE_80'S

Hey noob you are past you bed time go to sleep before you mama catches swearing on the computer again!

I'll just take this to be your way of saying 'I'm an angry sonofabitch who can't accept he's a jackass, so he thinks insulting someone based on how long they've been here is a valid argument.'

[TicTac in my eye]

Originally Posted by OLIE_ROCKS_THE_80'S

Ok let me explain it to you like a 6 year old then:

1)You have not been here long enough and you have no freaking clue as to what transpired with the ATD deal so shut the heck up about things you know nothing about!

2)herc's rep has always been bad not so much because his work but because of his terribly long completion times, missed deadlines etc... Which is why he isn't in the biz anymore he is just burned out!

3)For the record I have nothing to gain by endorsing Nate's work. I just call it like I see it. He did some good work for me at one point and that's it. I have told Nate that some of his work and swirls are average at best and whether he takes the criticism and decides to act on it or not is his perogative. People keep buying bodies from him regardless, so I don't think what you or I say will hurt Nate's business, in fact he is a member here and I'm sure he will read this and get a kick out of it! so chill out pops and get a thicker skin!

Just enjoy the swirls you like Ollie.