Amps: Have i been converted?

[darren wilson]

Most of you who have known me through Jemsite for the last few years will know that i don't have a lot to say about amps. I generally find them to rob too much signal from my guitar and processing, so i prefer to go direct whenever possible.

Well, this past weekend, we had a gig with three other bands... it was all very techno/industrial, and the sound guy just didn't have enough available channels on his mixer and didn't want to take up another one with my DI. So at the last minute i asked one of the other bands' guitarists if i could borrow his amp for our set. He obliged very considerately, and i was plugged into his brand-spankin-new Mesa Dual Rectifier head into a 4x12 Marshall cab.

Now, all of my core tones come from my BOSS GT-6 pedalboard, so he just set me up on the clean channel with an optional boost (which i left on just to get better stage levels). I was completely blown away. Everything sounded like it had much more depth and richness, and it was super-super clean with tons of headroom. Not even a hint of dirt on that channel.

Needless to say, i was very impressed, and i'm now re-thinking my pristine signal path of choice. However, i simply do not have the space to keep a half-stack around for the occasional gig.

I'm thinking my ideal rig might be a stereo tube 2x12 combo with a closed-back cab. Does anything like this exist? I know i can get this setup with a Peavey Classic 50/50 (or Mesa 50/50) and a 2x12 cab, but i'd rather not go with a rack setup to maintain simplicity.

Does anybody make 2x12 cabs with an integrated 2U rack space?

[microdmitry]

I'd rather have Mesa 50/50 and two Mesa Thiele 1x12 with Electro Voice EVM12L speakers. It's a sh#tload of money, but it's some serious tone and power. And it also makes it possible to run stereo effects (not very useful on stage, but at home that's great).

[mike777]

I'm sure it could be done. I haven't seen a stereo tube combo but I've often thought that it would be a great idea. The down side to the concept would be the physical weight of the amp so it probably wouldn't sell very well for a major amp manufacturer. That would be the big con. The other thing is that probably the vast majority who really need the power and tone of an all-tube 50-watt (or more) amplifier probably won't be playing in situations that will really allow the player or the audience to appreciate the stereo separation. You'd have to mic-up each speaker at the gig and considering the rushed set-up times between some sets, phase cancellation as a result of mic placement is another issue. A stereo direct output with speaker emulation added post FX (stereo FX loop) but pre amp (mono) would be feasable, though.

For a boutique builder or custom builder.......why not? Someone would build one I'm sure. Overall, for what I do, I think it's a cool idea.

Mike 777 Haug

[darren wilson]

I'm kinda surprised nobody has done it before. I don't want to lug any more gear to gigs than is absolutely necessary. (Hence, my current approach of a DI box/splitter with a powered monitor.) Unfortunately, sound guys don't want to do anything different, even if it makes their job easier. Trying to get them to do anything beyond sticking a mic in front of a speaker is next to impossible.

My other option is to get a 1x12 tube combo (or a pair if i want to run stereo), but i kinda prefer the punch of a closed-back cab.

I absolutely do not want to get into a head/cab or rack/cab situation.

[BucketBot]

Originally Posted by darren wilson

Does anybody make 2x12 cabs with an integrated 2U rack space?

I'm pretty sure that Groove Tubes makes, or at least made, something like that. I remember seeing ads in guitar magazines for them. Maybe check with them.

[Champagne Mist]

Marshall makes a JCM 2000 TSL122 . Its a 100W combo (50 per side i think) with 2-12" stereo. There's a TSL602, which is the same thing i think, but with 60 watts of power. They both have 2 -12" Celestions i think. To me, this sounds like what you are looking for.

[gkelm]

Originally Posted by darren wilson

I was completely blown away. Everything sounded like it had much more depth and richness, and it was super-super clean with tons of headroom. Not even a hint of dirt on that channel. Needless to say, i was very impressed, and i'm now re-thinking my pristine signal path of choice.

It's about time.

Seems like I've seen somthing like what you want, but can't recall. The Roland JC120 is great, but you're back to SS. You could drop a Rivera TBR-1 or 2 into a custom cab (like Mike suggested)...but that would get heavy.
Greg

[Drew]

That's a mesa clean channel for you... SO deep. It's a beautiful thing...

Um, try this: Mesa Single Recto 50 Solo head with a Mesa Recto 2x12 cab. It doesn't come in stereo stock, but the cab can be wired for stereo, and it's an optional upcharge to get it that way from Mesa. The head's about a grand, the cab is about $500, and if you go used, you can do a little better than that. And you'll have a smaller alternative to a half stack with some SERIOUS tone.

Tube amps rock.

-Drew

[darren wilson]

Thanks for the tips, guys. The TSL 122 looks interesting, but it's not stereo. I also don't think i really need a 3-channel amp or reverb or anything. To get all the sounds i use regularly, i'd really need about a 12-channel amp.

But i do think i've fallen in love with that Mesa clean channel. How do their combos compare? (I'm thinking F-50 or Rect-o-Verb.)

The Single Rectifier Solo 50 head does look like it'd fit the bill nicely, but again, i'd be getting into a head/cab arrangement. If i go that route, i might as well go for a rack-mounted power amp and stereo cabs. (Maybe a Genz Benz G-Flex or two 1x12 cabs.) I really don't want to go down that road. Before i know it, i'll be schlepping around a half-stack in my VW.

I don't really need a robust preamp... just clean, deep power.

[Kremlin]

I've got a Rivera TBR-1SL and a Rivera C212 wired for stereo on the way... you might want to consider that route. Do a search for Rivera, the Rivera-pimps on Jemsite converted me

[darren wilson]

You just HAD to get me to look at the Rivera Web site, didn't you? The Suprema looks absolutely sweet... EL-84 power section in a closed-back ported 1x12 combo. And they make matching subwoofers! Too bad they're so ungodly expensive!

There is a Suprema on eB*y right now with a reasonable BIN price, but it's still more than i'm willing to spend at the moment, especially at tax time.

How do you guys like them in comparison to Mesa/Boogie gear? Does the Rivera clean channel still have that same shimmering depth?

[Kremlin]

Well I've got a Mesa/Boogie Mark IV combo..

The clean channel is so much ridiculously better than any Boogie I have ever heard it makes me want to cry. The best clean I've heard from a Boogie was out of an original Mark 1, and my Mark IV isn't that far off.. The Rivera's clean blows them both away. The clean sounds like what Fender is supposed to sound like.

The distortion channel is Marshally, venturing into Soldano territory. It sounds like what a super hotrodded Marshall should sound like. It won't get the Santana woman-tone the way the Boogie Mark series will because it's not as middy, but the clarity is a LOT better.

I don't know about your experience with Boogie, but I found their clean channels to generally sound pretty dark, and too "spongey" for my tastes. The Rivera through a good cabinet is smooth, and crisp.. Kinda like SRV's Lenny.

[microdmitry]

Originally Posted by darren wilson

Thanks for the tips, guys. The TSL 122 looks interesting, but it's not stereo. I also don't think i really need a 3-channel amp or reverb or anything. To get all the sounds i use regularly, i'd really need about a 12-channel amp.

But i do think i've fallen in love with that Mesa clean channel. How do their combos compare? (I'm thinking F-50 or Rect-o-Verb.)

The Single Rectifier Solo 50 head does look like it'd fit the bill nicely, but again, i'd be getting into a head/cab arrangement. If i go that route, i might as well go for a rack-mounted power amp and stereo cabs. (Maybe a Genz Benz G-Flex or two 1x12 cabs.) I really don't want to go down that road. Before i know it, i'll be schlepping around a half-stack in my VW.

I don't really need a robust preamp... just clean, deep power.

G-Flex cabs are ridiculously overpriced. You'll have to buy new speakers for them as well, because Eminence speakers just don't cut it. A pair of nice Celestions will cost you around $200 delivered. If I had to choose between Rect-O-Verb and F-50 I'd choose rect-o-verb. If I had to choose among all Mesas, I'd choose Mark IV. I've compared the schematics and Mark IV is as close to the legendary Mark IIC+ as possible and it's relatively cheap. And tons of tone options are sure to keep you entertained for a while.

[gkelm]

FWIW, one of my favorite Mesa clean tones comes out of a Maverick 4x10 (EL84).
Greg

[rgr]

I'm pretty sure that the G-Flex speakers aren't Eminence, last time I talked to GB they told me that the cones were supplied by the same manufacturer that made the V30 cones, that they are basically the same thing. I've actually heard that some of the Eminence speakers are quite nice. It's all ice cream, there is a lot of difference in the Celestion models too, I think the old 35W Celestions are total dogs.

$0.02,
Roger