Attenuating A Peavey Valve King

[Big Red]

Hi Folks,

I bought a Peavey Valve King 112 a few months ago and I am having a great time with it.

Anyways, I'm a tube-amp noob (I'm still trying to get my head wrapped around the basics), and I was trying to attenuate my Valve King with my MXR KFK 10-band EQ. I hooked up the EQ into my effects loop and put all of the EQ-faders to the lowest position. Then I was **finally** able to crank up the volume of my Valve King to "8" (I normally run it at "1" because I live in an apartment) in order to attain power-tube saturation.

The thing is that the distortion didn't sound that much better, it sounded a little bit crisper and slicker, but I was expecting a massive improvement. Did I make the wrong assumption? Did I actually acheive power-tube saturation through this method? Or did throwing in an EQ in the effects loop hinder power-tube saturation? Or is this just a charactoristic of the Valve King?

It still sounds as if most of the gain is coming through the pre-amp even though the master volume is cranked high enough.

Thanks in advance. Cheers

[shogun]

valve kings sound fine at a low volume.. attenuating is stupid imo.. just buy an amp you like the sound of at the volume you want it for :P

[Big Red]

Originally Posted by shogun

valve kings sound fine at a low volume.. attenuating is stupid imo.. just buy an amp you like the sound of at the volume you want it for :P

I agree that it sounds good enough at low volume, but I was curious as to what it would sound like with full-on power-tube saturation (at apartment level volumes). I was asking if I attenuating it properly....proper signal chain etc....

Its beer time!!!


Cheers

[elcid]

Originally Posted by Big Red

I was asking if I attenuating it properly....proper signal chain etc....

No, you need an attenuator. The only one I've used was the THD Hot Plate and I hated it.

[Big Red]

Originally Posted by elcid

No, you need an attenuator.

Thanks, but can you be more specific?

I thought that if the master volume is high enough, it would create power-tube saturation. Why wouldn't it work with an volume-dampening EQ in the effects loop? Am I hindering the power-tubes by put the EQ in between the pre-amp section and the power-tubes? I'm trying to conceptualize whats going on here.

Thanks

[elcid]

I'll try to explain it the best I can, someone else may be able to help more. An attentuator goes between the amp and the speaker, so the full power of the amp goes out but the attenuator cuts it down. What you are doing is turning everything up on the amp, then by running in the effects loop and cutting the volume all you are doing in lowering the volume between the pre amp and power amp, so you arent really sending out the most power that you could be.
What results are you expecting to hear? The difference wont be an increase in gain like going from Fender to a Soldano. If you listen to any live Hendrix or Allman Brother at the Fillmore, you'll hear a cranked 100 watt Marshall, but the tone isnt very distorted.

[Big Red]

Originally Posted by elcid

I'll try to explain it the best I can, someone else may be able to help more. An attentuator goes between the amp and the speaker, so the full power of the amp goes out but the attenuator cuts it down. What you are doing is turning everything up on the amp, then by running in the effects loop and cutting the volume all you are doing in lowering the volume between the pre amp and power amp, so you arent really sending out the most power that you could be.
What results are you expecting to hear? The difference wont be an increase in gain like going from Fender to a Soldano. If you listen to any live Hendrix or Allman Brother at the Fillmore, you'll hear a cranked 100 watt Marshall, but the tone isnt very distorted.

Ah...okay, I get it now. I knew that a "real" attentuator goes between the amp and the speaker, but I thought I would try to be a bit clever. I guess I failed then. LOL. I didn't want to spend $$$ for a proper attenuater.

What was I expecting to hear? Well, I wasn't really looking for a boast in gain to the degree that you described, but I was expecting an increase in the QUALITY of gain (pre-amp verses power-amp gain).

Cheers...duuuuddeee! I'm having a white russian in your honor.

[Guitarmiester]

Originally Posted by Big Red

Anyways, I'm a tube-amp noob (I'm still trying to get my head wrapped around the basics), and I was trying to attenuate my Valve King with my MXR KFK 10-band EQ. I hooked up the EQ into my effects loop and put all of the EQ-faders to the lowest position. Then I was **finally** able to crank up the volume of my Valve King to "8" (I normally run it at "1" because I live in an apartment) in order to attain power-tube saturation.

The thing is that the distortion didn't sound that much better, it sounded a little bit crisper and slicker, but I was expecting a massive improvement. Did I make the wrong assumption? Did I actually acheive power-tube saturation through this method? Or did throwing in an EQ in the effects loop hinder power-tube saturation? Or is this just a charactoristic of the Valve King?

You can't really use an EQ as an attenuator. You basically set the EQ totally flat and I'm assuming you also set the volume level on the pedal to minimum. I doubt you were getting power tube saturation, you were most likely adding to the preamp distortion.

There's really no substitute for cranking an amp to achieve power tube saturation. An attenuator works, but does color your tone a bit. Some people have tried using a volume pedal in the effects loop to act as a master volume, but that doesn't do the trick. Sure, you can crank the amp more but you're adding more preamp distortion rather than pushing the power tubes.

[Big Red]

Originally Posted by Guitarmiester

You can't really use an EQ as an attenuator. You basically set the EQ totally flat and I'm assuming you also set the volume level on the pedal to minimum. I doubt you were getting power tube saturation, you were most likely adding to the preamp distortion.

There's really no substitute for cranking an amp to achieve power tube saturation. An attenuator works, but does color your tone a bit. Some people have tried using a volume pedal in the effects loop to act as a master volume, but that doesn't do the trick. Sure, you can crank the amp more but you're adding more preamp distortion rather than pushing the power tubes.

So what you are saying, is that adding a EQ-pedal in the effects loop will diminish the effect of the power-amp tubes, because the pre-amp valves are being muffled (for want of a better term)? In other words, full power-amp distortion requires full pre-amp distortion?

I feel like I'm on the edge of a metal break-through here.LOL.

[Guitarmiester]

Having an EQ in the loop won't mess with you achieving power amp saturation. It's just that the way you're running it isn't going to get you into power amp saturation. All you're doing is setting it for a flat signal and cutting preamp volume.

[Big Red]

Originally Posted by Guitarmiester

Having an EQ in the loop won't mess with you achieving power amp saturation. It's just that the way you're running it isn't going to get you into power amp saturation. All you're doing is setting it for a flat signal and cutting preamp volume.

Ah...the mental breakthrough kicked in. Okay, I finally got it. LOL.



Thanks and cheers.

[T.B.A.]

OK, I justa had a scary thought.
If someone was not quite up to speed reading this thread and had the bright idea of:
"Ok, if an attenuater goes between the amp and speaker, why don't I just try the EQ in between these and adjust the level ?"

I'm probably wrong, but I assume this could do some major carnage?

[Guitarmiester]

^ Yea, not a good idea at all.

[Mr.WizardNeck]

Originally Posted by T.B.A.

OK, I justa had a scary thought.
If someone was not quite up to speed reading this thread and had the bright idea of:
"Ok, if an attenuater goes between the amp and speaker, why don't I just try the EQ in between these and adjust the level ?"

I'm probably wrong, but I assume this could do some major carnage?

Other than needing a new amp after a few mins and a new EQ in less than one, no problems at all.

MELT THOSE COMPONENTS WITH WATTAGE! AH AHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

[Toadfish]

I've recommended this to anyone I ever hear needs an attenuator - best sounding one I've used by far, and no tone-colouration.

www.ultimateattenuator.com

Good luck man!

Sukh

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