Boss DS-1 Satch and Vai Tones...

[Jeff]

Originally Posted by mo biscuits

i love satch's tone most specifically on the title track to "surfing with the alien" whenever i hear people mention his tone i always have to wonder what particular song or album they are talking about cause it seems to me he has a million different tones

Well, I mainly meant his live tone on G3 and in San Fran. In the studio it's not so bad, and he does have a million tones on his albums.

[bpd111]

Have you looked at this?

http://www.jemsite.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=26582

[bpd111]

Ooops! !@#$%^&*() computer!

[frankfalbo]

Originally Posted by bpd111

Have you looked at this?

http://www.jemsite.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=26582

Well, I have, and it's depressing. This thread is much better It's staying on topic more and mostly dealing with "gear and equipment" That's an interesting quote from Joe about feeding pedals to the clean channel. It's a little ambiguous, as to whether he does exactly that with the DS1 and that somehow is producing the "Satriani" live sound. Or maybe he's just saying that you have to design an amp that way, you know, "morally". So that its the most useable to everyone. And he's right. But if you're using a clean channel like a power amp, I still can't imagine getting a fluid, singing, expressive "Satriani" sound from the DS1 no matter what the mods.

[Lonely Raven]

bpd, yes, I looked at that, and many others just like it.

That's why I'm starting a new thread and hoping to guide it along a bit
and hope it doesn't crash and burn like that thread.

speaking of which, glen, I ment no disrespect. Reading back what I said
might have been takin as snotty. I didn't mean it that way.

Part of the reason I left Jemsite a few years ago, was because people
were too high strung. I was hoping maybe things have settled a bit,
and I hope we can continue this thread in the spirit it was ment.

I simply, and literally, want to hear if anyone feels they have nailed the
Satch and or Vai sound. And, knowing that most of someones "sound"
comes from skill, I asked to please ignor that and post "your" close
calls.

Come on guys, what have YOU done. We can look up settings and
equipment all day, but what have YOU done!!

(pant pant) Ok, I'll step off my mini-soap-box.

Personally, I don't sound like either of our favorites. I know it's because
I suck, but I've squeezed some impressive Satch tone back in the days
when I had a Donnie and a huge Mesa Boogie setup. I truely wish that
I didn't sell the Donnie (even tho it played like crap), and the Mesa
Boogie (which got stolen).

I have no idea how that setup got me there, but it was close to Satch.
And not just Big Bad Moon, but most of Flying in a Blue Dream CD.

Anyone have a similar personal experience?

[Praetorian]

As far as me hitting their tones, I've been able to get the Surfing With the Alien tone right with my Fender Princeton Chorus and my Schecter C-1+. That's a hardtail, mahogany body, and not a basswood, edge pro. Strange that I would get it with that, but I bet I couldn't get it with a JS. It's just all about how you set your EQ, not in the gain and such. I've really not been able to nail Vai's tone on Windows to the Soul though. Sounds amazing, wish I could!

[Petie]

I can absolutely flat-out nail the tone from The Mighty Turtle Head with my Crate tube half stack, an Ibanez RG with stock V6 neck pickup, and a cheap and nasty Ibanez delay. A lot of his tone is in the way he picks. And it doesn't hurt to use a wah pedal in a fixed position now and then.

[Lonely Raven]

Yeah, the Wah in a fixed position is really key for a lot of Satch's sounds.
I'm glad you brought that up.

I've also learned a bit about how to use the volume knob from both
Joe and Steve, as well as Eddy Van Halen.

Truely, I find Steve's tone more difficult to nail. And the more I think
about it, the more I'd say it's 90% in his fingers, 5% in his gear, but
also, since Steve does a lot if not all of his own sound engineering I'd
give that last 5% there.

Joe has some talented people behind the mixing boards, but I think more
often then not their goal is to "get that sound on tape", rather then
"tweak the **** out of it till it sounds right".

Listening to Satch and Vai on some high end hand made stereo systems,
I find Joe's stuff more pleaseing and better, more warmer to the ear.
That's completely ignoring the fact that Steve's music I find sometimes
overwhelming when I listen to it. To this day, I can only listen to a few
tracks of Passion and Warfare in one sitting...it's heavy on the ear as
well as the mind.

But I drift from the point. The Wah thing really hits it on the head. I've
been looking at some of those hand made Botique Wah pedals for a while
now. And that's mostly for the tweak in the tone rather then actual live
Wah effects. I'm a bit nutty on the Wah myself...probably to cover up the
rather meager guitar playing behind it. LOL

[frethack]

Its probably already been said, but perhaps the keeley mod will sweeten it up some.

[Lonely Raven]

I assume by "it" you mean a Boss DS-1 pedal?

Perhaps you ment to include this here link as well:

http://www.robertkeeley.com/product.php?id=10

Anyone Try the Keeley DS-1 pedal mods? I've *heard* he was a hack
and using cheap parts to boot...but I'm not saying that's a fact, I'm just
saying I've had a few amp techs say they've taken a look at his work
and were really dissapointed. But I see this at the bottome of the page:

-------------------------------snip---------------------------------------------

More info
I had the pleasure of working with Steve Vai recently. He sent me 2 Boss DS-1s to modify for him. Somehow he got his hands on my DS-1 Seeing Eye mod and dug it. He sent me his pedals with some comments on other options he'd like for the mod so I now offer the DS-1 Ultra Mod which has the exact specs of the pedal that Steve had me create for him. A similar feel to the Seeing Eye mod, but with some noticeable upgrades.

Maybe I'll have to add one of these to my growing DS-1 collection and
see what it sounds like!

Speaking of which, I plugged in my DS-1 collection last one, one by one,
with an external power adapter rather then batteries, and I was again
shocked at how different each generation of DS-1 sounded!! And on top
of that, the 70s vintage DS-1 that I have SMOKED ALL, includeing the
Analogman one that I thought was hands down the best!

Now, I don't recall the 70's vintage DS-1 sounding so good, but then I
realized that I was using a battery on it in the past. I'm not sure why this
is, especially since I've always been told that in a studio situation, batteries
sound better then power cords...which I believed up until last night!
Hell, like the nutty-super-ear of Eric Johnson, I can for sure hear the
difference the effect of batteries have on my pedals! As well as cables,
power conditioning, etc etc.

Anywho, anyone try a Keeley mod?

[somata]

i've never heard anything but the highest remarks regarding keeley and his mods...i know there are many users on here who have his pedals. its really surprising that you've heard that he's a hack and uses cheap parts...its obviously from someone who had a bad experience...although, again, i've only heard good things about him.

the fact that vai and satriani both use his pedals (i know there are other well known players who do as well...) speaks volumes to his abilities and conduct...

[jemsite]

you can read Dave Weiner's post on this from last xmas time. He demo'd this first hand for gary & myself (AB from the keeley DS-1 to my unmodded DS-1) thru an Ignator and the change was impressive. Dave is a tweeker/geeker w/ gear so for him to be impressed would make me give a second listen along Of course, your mileage may vary.

If someone doesn't really like the DS-1, i don't think ANY mod can make it pleasurable to their ears I personally can sort of take or leave the DS-1... it can easily suck away tone as much as help (especially the unmodded pedal)...glen

[Lonely Raven]

Damn, I just read through every page on Keeley's website, and read
some reviews around the web (www.google.com of course), and I can't
believe anyone has said bad about this guys work in the past. He's got a
hell of a following!

I think I'm going to have to save up and add one more pedal to my
collection! LOL

Odd though, that Steve Vai sent Keeley two Taiwan DS-1's to mod. I can't
imagine Steve using those stock, the newest ones are harsh like static
to me. I went through three or four of them before I gave up the idea
of finding one that sounds as good as my 12 year old one....

[Praetorian]

Funny how the older stuff always sounds better (i.e. Evo, vintage guitars). I guess they just don't make em like they used to. By the way, how did the other DS-1's (besides the 70's model) sound? I've never had one before, but from what the world says about them, I might give them a try rather than use only my amp. Probably an older one too, as you said, older sounds better. Hmm...so maybe next guitar I get sould be a used or older one...

[Lonely Raven]

It's really hard to describe the DS-1 tones. They are gritty with a bit of
buzz to them. And I find, even in the same batch of pedals, some
just sound better then others.

The 70's one has a good buzz, sounds warm, and when you crang up
the distortion it really rips. At least with a power cord it does...on battery
I think it's got a bit of *bad* distortion. More like harsh clipping of
a transistor amp.

The 80's Made in Japan has more bite, and is a bit harsh. It sounds warmer
with battery power then with wall power. It's got more distortion then the
70's one, and the tone knob seems to have more usefull "sweatspots".
Though I don't feel it has as many usefull distortion settings.

The late 80's Made in Taiwan DS-1 isn't nearly as warm as any of the
older MIJ or the AnalogMan pedals, it has even more bite, more distortion,
and I believe has more volume overall. I have mixed feelings about this
one. It's useless unless you really want cranked distortion all the time.
Rather a one trick pony.

Now, the AnalogMan...it has LOTS of warmth. It's smoother and has less
bite, and therefor less distortion. It seems like it has more volume and
less feel of compression. It's very much more "in your face". I don't want
to say more present, I think "in your face" is more accurate. With the
AnalogMan pedal I can cut more of a classic Angus Young sound out of
just about ANY amp, or I can add (what little) more buzz it has and
get more of a late 80's ZZ Top sound. It's got a touch of blues in it, but
more so ripping blues then laid back warm blues.

I hope that made sense to you...It's really difficult to describe the tones,
but these are the sounds and feelings I've varified with some friends who
were nice enough to sit through each and every demo of the pedals.
Some really want to be at 12 O'Clock straight up on all the dials. Some
really want to be cranked or nothing. Most of the ones on the shelf today
just are icepicks in the ears. Too much harsh high end buzz like a cheap
transistor amp rather then warm tube sounding.

I think I'm going to try a Keeley as soon as I can afford one!