Detailed Wood Tones

[RSVampire]

I know how a wood might sound, mohogony - warm wood basswood -warm wood alder - less warm. What I'm trying to find (and a lot of my friends who play guitar) are trying to find a more detailed analogy of the woods themselves. Only one I've found is www.andersonguitars.com and that isn't too detailed. Anyone got a list of some popular woods and how they sound in detail?

[The Madness Here]

http://www.rampartguitars.com/Tonewoods.htm

this list is pretty comprehensive.

[frankfalbo]

Anderson's is okay, and that other one is pretty extensive, too. I've been toying around with the idea of making the "falbo" wood descriptions where I get real detailed into how each wood can sound. The Rampart guy is just giving one-liners, and Anderson brings his own bias to the descriptions, from the standpoint of a well made bolt on guitar. But that doesn't help with the set neck, neck through, or more cheaply made asian guitars where the wood isn't the finest specimen of it's species, as is the case with Tom.

If enough of you would like to read my ramblings, let me know either here (don't want to hijack a post) or in pm/e-mail. Maybe I'll start with the common woods, and if you want more, tell me which ones. If I have experience with them, I'll add them later.

[darren wilson]

I think there are a few knowledgeable and experienced folks here who could put together the definitive "Jemsite guide to tone woods".

Fire away, Frank!

[RSVampire]

sounds good. Here's the deal, I'm gunna attempt to build a guitar myself so I'm looking for a body to stick a FRED into. It sounded good in it's basswood body it originally was "designed" for. But I'm looking for a little less, mid range-y sound and give it a little more lows. I love the clarity of the Fred just trying to work around some wood to make it a little less mid-y and such. So any suggestions would be good. btw it'll be a neck-body design. neck will probably be maple or something. I was thinking about a nice piece of Alder or Swamp Ash or something with some veneer tops and a nice finish.

[frankfalbo]

Originally Posted by RSVampire

btw it'll be a neck-body design.

Aren't they all? :P

Did you mean neck through body design? Because that in and of itself will mute some of those open mids. Alder and Ash with or without a maple cap will also scoop some of them away. Its not that they're less midrangey than basswood necessarily, but they are more full bodied with more lows and highs than basswood. Either choice would be fine. If it's a bolt on neck then I would still say both woods are okay, especially with a maple top. Even Basswood with a maple top mutes some of the upper mids in favor of snappy highs. Then the warmth of the basswood comes through more, as it compliments the maple top.

I'll try to start a "jemsite guide..." in the next couple days.

[Drew]

bring it!

This probably goes without saying, but in addition to tonal qualities in general, qualities relavent to a specific application might be cool- i.e- the appeal of brighter tonewoods for detuned/7+ string guitars...
you know, my personal bias.

-D

[frankfalbo]

Yeah that's why I think those one-liners are deceiving. Especially Tom's because you can't take that info and transfer it to a neck through, or even to a 7-string, or drop tuned 6 for that matter.

By the way, I'm working of finishing up a solid one-piece quilted maple 7 string, so don't get me started on the appeal of brighter......

[darren wilson]

Even though i've got a project guitar still in pieces in the basement, i'm getting the urge to buy a Carvin through-body 7-string neck and glue some Swamp Ash wings on it, carving it into a pseudo-JS shape.

Gotta get a job first, though.

[jay ratkowski]

Frank - if you do that write-up it would be fantastic.

How would you organize it though? Different sections for bodies, necks, neck-thru, tops, etc?

[frankfalbo]

You know if anyone wants to convert a JS (or anything else) into a 7 all you have to do is rip it down the middle, plane the edges, and add a strip of basswood or something fancy down the middle. It has to be the exact size that the pickup routs and the studs are aptly placed. Then you just have to clean up the routs, make a new tremplate (it'll be wider) and fill and redrill the neck holes (they'll be farther apart, too) You'd have to use a 540S7 style neck though, or make one, or jack around with the neck placement for the stupid warmoth 25" scale neck. Or, you could take a JS body, and rip the middle out for the Carvin 7-string neck log. In ripping the middle out, you'd leave enough wood so that the trem studs, etc. would line up.

[frankfalbo]

Originally Posted by jay ratkowski

Frank - if you do that write-up it would be fantastic.

How would you organize it though? Different sections for bodies, necks, neck-thru, tops, etc?

Probably, or I'd cover the neck mounting differences within the body of each description. I can't get to it for another couple days, but I'll do it.

Splitting it to body and neck sections is a must, but talking about tops or hollowbodies might be a lot like Tom's short blurbs about how it's different from the solidbody counterpart that he already described. For example, in a roundabout way, he talks about how some of the negative connotations about Basswood are eliminated when you use a Maple top or go hollow with the Maple top. That can be more of an addendum to the description of Basswood, rather than a whole new description. But I can't stand when you see simpleton stuff like "adding a maple top makes it brighter" because its only half the story. And I mean, does adding a quilted maple top to a plain maple back make it brighter? Duh. But even a Maple top on ash doesn't necessarily brighten the ash, because it's bright already. It more suppresses the open, toothy mids. So maybe you hear more "click" to the top end but it didn't "brighten" it.

So I'll do a real unbiased description, free of the intent to sell you guitars, too. Most of these guys talk "up" the wood they use. They glorify it because its part of the marketing campaign to get you to feel good about your purchase. If one guy is excited about his woods and uses superlatives in his descriptions, you'll feel good about that guitar. The company that just says "maple is bright, mahogany is warm, alder is strat, etc. doesn't create the same feelings. Like charred gas station coffee vs. Starbucks. Yes, they're different, but the biggest difference in getting you to pay $4.00 for the Starbucks is the feeling. (And I pay it, too! I love that feeling!) Like Dimarzio really goes over the edge in their descriptions, because it plays off what the "kids" want to feel like. They talk about things that have more to do with amps and cabinets, and like you'll get those things if you just buy their pickup. But it works. Sorry I'm ranting. I'll keep the ranting down in the wood descriptions.

[darren wilson]

The more you talk about it, the more i think this is an awesome idea, Frank. I can't wait to see your first draft, and maybe it could be a "living document" that can be grown and added to over time. Maybe if Glen is open to the idea, it could be a permanent page on Jemsite, with a sticky discussion area on the forum to collect additions and revisions.

My project guitar is actually an HSH 540R LTD that i have a Carvin Bolt neck, some Anderson pickups and a Sustainiac all ready to drop in. More than once i've considered selling all the 6-string parts, ripping the body in half and gluing the sides to a Carvin 7-string through-body neck, but i'd want my 7 to have a few changes (hardtail, H-H pickups, perhaps something other than basswood, etc.) so i wouldn't mind trying my hand at carving the body wings myself, rather than doing all that filling and re-cutting.

[jemsite]

if you guys can get this going, i'll gladly compile, credit & get it as a prominent reference area of the site. just please cite any references if they are taken from books/sites in the "reference guide"

i know alot of people have things to add to this, but a "reference guide" for starters would dramatically help get the ball rolling... glen

ps - i agree the anderson link is pretty much marketing-speak

[vaijem777]

The Warmoth site has a pretty good directory of the woods that they offer (which more or less covers just about everything)