digitech 2101, 2112, 2120

Hartfolk · #1 04-24-2005, 06:58 AM

Hi guys out there, I need some help to make my decision. I would like to buy a new piece into my rack. Wich one would you buy? digitech 2101,2112 or 2120.

I have tried a digitech 2101 for a couple of ours, a month ago.It was great! But I rellay do not know what is the difference beetween the other models.
Thanks for all your help!
Bence

Koss · #2 04-24-2005, 10:37 AM

The 2112 and 2120 are basically the same thing, just different patches and stuff like that, and the 2120 has upgraded software. The 2112 can easily be upgraded to a 2120 though, so if its significantly cheaper to get the 2112, then do it, because it can be upgraded fo like, 20 bucks. I own a 2120 myself, and my friend owns a 2112 upgraded to a 2120. I honestly dont know alot about the 2101 though. But it cant be upgraded to a 2120 like the 2112 can, so that unit itself should be noticeably different from the 2112/2120.

bpd111 · #3 04-24-2005, 05:44 PM

An advantage to the 2101 over the 2112/20s is that you can bypass the preamp.

Patrick Deno · #4 04-25-2005, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hartfolk

Hi guys out there, I need some help to make my decision. I would like to buy a new piece into my rack. Wich one would you buy? digitech 2101,2112 or 2120.

I have tried a digitech 2101 for a couple of ours, a month ago.It was great! But I rellay do not know what is the difference beetween the other models.
Thanks for all your help!
Bence

To be honest, what I would suggest you get is more dependant on your price range and the availability of the product - they haven't made these in over 10 years now so the better ones are getting rarer by the minute.

2101 = original, non-updatable firmware and only a single processor. This last is actually the defining factor with the '01s as you may get slight "dead spots" between patches and your delays/reverbs will abruptly cut off/change when switching.

2112 = updatable firmware and dual processors, eliminating drop outs and allowing carry over of timing effects. I personally owned this model and I loved it. I got some REALLY cool sounds out of it. I only got rid of it due to having to move from one country to another and not being able to take it with me.

2120 = updatable firmware, duels processors, etc. They worked most, if not all, of the bugs out finally with this model but by this time its popularity was waning.

Suggestions:

If you have the money and are able to find one, get one of the 2120 artist models. The patches were, supposedly, designed by professional musicians of the time and the cases come in pretty, metalic colors like purple and gold. The patches themselves aren't really usable by today's standards right out of the box but make for good starting points to build your patches with. The great thing about these is that you're not locked in a certain chain, you can mix and match effects in different orders so long as you have the memory to run them all with.

Make sure you get the manual with it if you can. These things are extremely versitile and ease of use was not a factor in how they were layed out. Programming takes a bit of getting used to and there's a good sized learning curve to start with. Once you've got the basic idea though, it's only a matter of time before you will be able to tweak it to your needs. Time is really the factor here so don't expect to get your sound right off. There's about a million options and things to mess with. If you don't have the time, don't bother.

As soon as you get whichever model home, replace the preamp tubes. You'll notice the difference immediately. These things were shipped with the cheapest Sovtek had to offer. Personally I got a pair of Elektro-Harmonics and the sound was wonderful. These things have a dual gain stage, tube and solid state, which can be mixed and matched as needed but don't expect that "tube feel" - you're not going to get it. The difference is not about feel but more about type of gain, warmth and edge.

Summation: I found these to be versitile units in the extreme but if you're looking for a boutique modeling sound you won't find it here. These are antique units by today's standards with modeling technology what it is today but their versatility and ability to cover just about any tone range is the key. They were designed to be used as studio processors as well as stage rack units and many artists played them back in the day. These are units that you either love or hate - there is no middle ground. Clean, crisp tones with enough candy to suit most needs in one unit. techno-phobes beware, though. There's a bit of rocket science involved.

LJ

frankfalbo · #5 04-26-2005, 01:47 AM

The 2101 is capable of dual processors with the PPC chip. There are forums out there where people make their own PPC chips nowadays. I have the chip in mine. It stacks another S-disc chip on top of the first, and gives you seamless patch changes unless you're using too much of the processing power for one program. Then it would give you the slight glitch between that patch and the next one.

The manuals are available at Digitech's website I believe, so that's not an issue. I've used my 2101 since it first came out-literally. I have a NAMM show floor sample. It went back to Digitech several times for bugs to be worked out, and now it's as upgradeable as possible. I have no plans to replace it with anything. It's the brains of my rack. But I don't use the preamp, and yes, it can be totally shut off. I use any combination of 5 other preamps to feed it, and that's when it is at it's best IMO.

The biggest difference is the dual preamps in the 2112/20 but I don't consider that a big plus, because I don't like Digitech's preamps. So I don't know why I'd want TWO of them!

other than just as dual signal paths, but I have that already with the way I run my rack with my other preamps. The footpedal is fantastic, and totally usable live. It's proprietary, and is very intuitively designed. I've heard you can use the Johnson modelling amp footswitches too.

Bottom line, you can't go wrong with any of them, because you can always add an inexpensive tube preamp in front if you have to.

bpd111 · #6 04-26-2005, 02:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick Deno

Suggestions:

If you have the money and are able to find one, get one of the 2120 artist models.

Good idea. I happen to have one listed in the classifieds here. It will go to *that auction site* soon. I think I even put EH tubes in it.

Hartfolk · #7 04-26-2005, 10:34 AM

Thanks guys for all your answeres and advices.
Bence

Patrick Deno · #8 04-26-2005, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frankfalbo

The 2101 is capable of dual processors with the PPC chip. There are forums out there where people make their own PPC chips nowadays. I have the chip in mine. It stacks another S-disc chip on top of the first, and gives you seamless patch changes unless you're using too much of the processing power for one program. Then it would give you the slight glitch between that patch and the next one.

True, but I see several problems here:

1: If I'm not totally bonkers, I believe I read somewhere that when they doubled the processing power in the later models they also upped the memory to allow for it. With the PPC chip (actually a populated circuit board) you are essentially splitting the memory that was only meant for one - not a problem if you're not going to be using a big chain but something about the idea would just bug me. I'm just real anal about having all my options open in case I need them for whatever reason sometime down the line. Of course, I could be totally wrong about splitting the memory, too. I seem to remember reading this several years ago and my own memory is not quite what it used to be. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

2: Original PPC chips are extremely rare nowadays and Digitech stopped issuing them so long ago that they probably don't even have their own original plans on file anymore. Heck, you can't even get the upgraded firmware chip from the factory for the 2112 anymore. I tried about 4 or 5 years ago and was firmly told "No way, no how." You have to be lucky enough to either get it with your unit (which I did but a leg of the chip itself was broken off) or be extremely lucky and find someone who has one on e(vil)Bay - or find someone to build one for you if you can't do it yourself (see next paragraph)

3: Yes, there are diagrams and tutorials on the net for making a PPC chip of your own but unless you're real handy with a soldering iron it's pretty much out of your average layman's league. Kind of hard if you don't know the difference between a transistor, a resistor or a diode - let alone finding the correct chips at radioshack or wherever. Better to buy a later model with all the extras built in, IMHO.

Quote:

The biggest difference is the dual preamps in the 2112/20 but I don't consider that a big plus, because I don't like Digitech's preamps. So I don't know why I'd want TWO of them!

other than just as dual signal paths, but I have that already with the way I run my rack with my other preamps. The footpedal is fantastic, and totally usable live. It's proprietary, and is very intuitively designed. I've heard you can use the Johnson modelling amp footswitches too.

I play metal and always have so I actually did mix both gain stages together. Nice warmth from the tube section and a nice bit of edge and sustain from the transistor stage to carry it over the top. I think I went about 30/70 on those, if I remember correctly. As Glen is so fond of saying: Your mileage may vary. Add a smidge of compression for tightness and a tad of chorus with some gentle delay for headroom and you have a chunk sound from hell that's versitile and responsive without getting muddy. I also play a bit of blues and venture into jazzy sounding stuff once in a while so the tube stage suited me for those tones as well - nice overdrive without being too sharp or cutting if you didn't want it to be.

I put my Bad Horsey and Whammy in front of it and ran the whole thing through a studio grade rack EQ and then into a clean, transistor, 100W per channel (stereo), rack power-amp. That's all I ever needed. Some folks have had great success with running this unit into a rack tube amp but it's not recommended simply because the tubes will color the sound. This thing was designed to be run through totally clean amplification which means transistor amp. Again, your mileage may vary.

Quote:

Bottom line, you can't go wrong with any of them, because you can always add an inexpensive tube preamp in front if you have to.

Amen, brother.

LJ

frankfalbo · #9 04-26-2005, 02:45 PM

Yeah I mix preamps all the time, sometimes panning them and compressing them differently, etc. Differing compression is great, because then when you press harder on the strings, your chosen "less compressed" sound breaks through more. I just meant that since I never thought the Digitech pres were "pro" level, why use two of them? But I have to admit, sometimes in my combinations I use the Digitech preamp for some coloration, like 80% hot tube pre + 20% Digitech fuzzy saturated pre. Digitech is good for the fizzy metal "crate amp" sound.

I wouldn't make a PPC and I'm pretty handy. I'd find some geek on the message boards who was making them already, and buy it. Those geeks are making their own bootleg eprom chips, too, and usually selling them for $30-$50 or so. Some of them are in electronics school and such, so it's kind of like a fun project for them to duplicate firmware.

This doesn't apply to Hartfolk because he's in Hungary, but most Guitar Center/Sam Ash type stores don't know anything about these units, so sometimes you'll find one cheap, with a PPC chip still in it and no one knows any better. Like finding a cheap older Ibanez that still has the backstop in it.

As for the PPC chip and memory, the only difference is that if you have a really long algorithm you won't have a seamless patch change to the next program. I don't have seamless patch changes anyway, because of my other preamps and devices. But it doesn't affect the operation in any way.

Hartfolk · #10 04-26-2005, 03:22 PM

I got a lot of information through your conversation guys,( more than I expected) but I still do not know what would be the most usefull for me. Unfrotunatelly there is no place where I find all the models together at the same time and try them one after the other.

Or may I buy T.C. G-major.....?

The truth is I have an eventide H-3000S wich is really great, but not the best for everything and I had not spent enough time to realize what I need most.

Koss · #11 04-27-2005, 10:32 AM

Alot of people who used to use the 21xx series moved on to the tc electronics, to stay up to date since the 21xx was discontinued. Me however, still swear by my 2120 artist. If you have a good preamp, try the 2101, if not, get one of the other two and upgrade to version 2.10 or 2.11 (the chips for this can be found on e-bay)

Cornbread · #12 05-01-2005, 07:58 AM

i have a 2112. i got the chip to upgrade it to a 2120 artist with ver 2.11 software. the presets are not gig worthy but some are fun to check out. programing is a pain but you can download a software program called rpedit and have all the controlls on a point and click interface. the software connects from your computer to the 2112/2120 via midi cables. this has been the best thing for me cause i can save all the programs and load different ones depending on the gig i am doing in a matter of seconds. or mix and match all my favorite ones.

if you get one like was said earlier get the electro harmonix tubes. nice sound change for the better. what i like about the 2112/2120 is that the effects can be put in any order and can be panned left right of auto pan. cool features but does take some time to work stuff out. if you really play with it you can get really good at programming. but like i said i went to the rpedit software and now very rarely use the pannel for programing. just minor tweaking.

plus you get some of the best chours and delay effects. the distortions are good but can get muddy. take your time and play with it. i would not get rid of mine for the world.

Bezial · #13 05-14-2005, 09:52 AM

replace the tubes , this is a good idea? I have just re set my 2112 up after using a gnx4 for ages and all i can say is boy did i miss this sound , its a sweet unit and i am goint to leave my gnx for recording and this baby for my main playing, the amp doesnt colour the sound like it does using a gnx. ok should i change tubes and what would you advise as best for it , is it as easy to change tubes as an amp is?

Thanks

bpd111 · #14 05-14-2005, 10:25 AM

I don't really know how much changing the tubes will do. (There was some debate in the Digitech circles whether the distortion actually came from the tubes.) I changed mine when I was using the 2120, but it did make some difference. You have to take the top off the unit (once out of the rack). There is, if memory serves, a bracket that keeps the tubes in place. This comes off after removing one screw. Then you can replace the tubes and put it back together again.

EH tubes seem to be a popular choice (I did). Although I now go to www.eurotubes.com and get JJs for all my tube needs.

eviltwin · #15 05-18-2005, 06:17 PM

I have been using my GSP2101 since they first came out (I paid $899 new about 2months after they were introduced.) my signal-path is

jem-wah-2101-JCM900 (power section only)
coupled with a Behringer FCB1010 midi-footcontroller (twin CC pedals)

By using a tube power amp, some of the edge is removd from the preamp sound, making it extremely useable and versatile. Playing around and being able to construct the programmable signal path is probably the best feature of this thing and although technology has advanced since, these units truly broke new ground. So much so, that there is very little more you can wish for.

Having said that, if I were on the lookout right now for something with this kind of functionality, I would probably go for a new Vox Tonelab SE ($499.99 new, probably similar cash to the used Digitech units?)

If you prefer something from the 1990 vintage, you may also want to check out the Korg A1, no tubes, but digital in/out and some more tricks. If you don't plan on using the pre-amp another option is the Digitech TSR 24, basically the 2101 sans pre-amp.

Good hunting!