Effects---- What to do?!?!?

[ace_of_spadezz]

I know that there are a lot of effects choices that are out there and i think there are pretty much two routes.

1. Buy a bunch of pedals. PROS- It gives you a lot of choices. Pick ones you like for better ease of use. Parameters are usually ease to adjust and most give fairly good range of sounds. CONS-- Accumalating to many of them can force holes in your wallet. It becomes hard to handle, transport, wire, etc. them when there are to many. Must also buy many power supplys/ connecters. It can make an increase in fuzz and ruduce your sound quaility also.

2. The new alterative, get a mutieffects station. PROS--- less money ( unless you are only going to need 2 or 3 pedals, which i am going to need more). Wider range of use ( most have drum machines, digital recording ,etc.) Easy transport. 1 power source. CONS--- Parameters are not as effective on most as they are on individual pedals. College degree may be needed to operate. Most only have 3- 5 pedals which makes them not as diverse as indiviual pedals ( many people who prefer pedals have 6 or 7). Don't give you the same effect and tone live.


I am currently on the verge of going down one of these paths and i would like to know you thoughts, ideas , words so i don't make the wrong decsion for me and end up have to sell them/ it on **** and getting ripped off. I need somthing that is as adiqate on the stage as jamming or recording at home. I also want a wide range of effects with good parameter adjustment. Mainly i would just like the effects and mabye some of the amp designs ( i wouldn't be using the drum machine, on board recorder, mp3 , computer works part, etc. much) Again any info or tips you have would be greatly welcome. I would also like to know some of the gear you have or use or would recomend getting.


I am looking at some of the following:

Stomboxes: boss metal zone, crybaby wah, and i'm not sure of many more i should get i don't really know aboput metal zone yet. or........



Muliteffects:
Digitech GNX4, Line 6 P.O.D, Boss GT-6


Again thanks and send in those replies please

[BeastofLove]

I just wanted to add for your consideration that a decent pedalboard, some velcro, patch cables, and a power supply that feeds multiple pedals (e.g. Power-All, 1-Spot, VL PP2) will solve the hard to transport/handle problem. Also, if you choose the Godlyke Power-All or Visual Sound 1-Spot, they're quite cheap in comparison to buying multiple adapters... not to mention you don't have as many wires running all over the place.

Noise/hiss/"fuzz" can be an issue either way you go. Some digital presets on multieffects units are far-FAR noisier than their real-pedal counterparts. Also, you'll need to choose the right pedal for the right job. You can't buy a Big Muff and crank it up expecting it to be silent when you're not playing .

One of the benefits of going the pedal route is FUTURE UPGRADABILITY. Let's say you get a 'great chorus' (e.g. Jaques Meistersinger) and a 'great distortion' (e.g. ToneBone Hot British) pedal. Over time, you still really like the chorus, but none of the ToneBone's settings are really doing it for you anymore. Unlike a multieffects unit, you can remove the offending component in the chain and replace it with something that suits you better. With a multieffects unit, you'd need to either suck-up and deal with it, or buy a whole new multieffects unit.

Another benefit in pedals, and this is strictly just my opinion, is that I can click something on and off. I can reach down and back the gain off with a knob. I don't have to create "Virtual effect chains". Everything is RIGHT THERE. And everything is SEPARATE. And no algorithm is going to tell me that I can't put my phaser BEFORE my distortion. No banks. No presets. No programming. Nothing telling me I can't do what I want to do.

Now, I used to have a PRS running into a Crown power amp, Digitech 2101, and 4x12 cab. I played with that setup for a year. I can't tell you how relieved I was when I sold it all for a simple 2x12 combo and 3 pedals. Over the years I've given the multieffects units more chances... I borrowed a POD for a while, owned a DG-Stomp, and also owned a Johnson Millenium 2x12 and Johnson JT-50 amp. All that stuff is gone now.

Some people can really get a good grip on the digital stuff and work it like wizards. Me, I'm like, "Why do I need to make a whole 'nother patch just to increase the delay time!!!".

Anyway, that's my 2 cents. I'm not anti-multieffect, it just isn't for me. God bless the guys that don't get frustrated and plug away at that stuff until they learn it cold.

Another quick note though- you have to see what you like the SOUND of better. If you like the sound of certain pedals better than the sounds you hear on the multieffect units, you'd better just go the pedal route and save yourself the trouble. If you like the sound of the multieffect units you're trying, then go with them! We can talk about flexibility, ease of use, etc. all we want, but at the end of the day it comes down to what you think sounds better blowing out of your amp speakers.

-Ben

[BeastofLove]

... oh yea, and it's kind of hard to give any suggestions on pedals or multieffects units without knowing what kind of music you like playing and what sort of amp you're running through

-Ben

[ace_of_spadezz]

Perfectly right, Ben thats my bad. i agree that the pedals are pretty easy to work withMy set up rite now is pretty simple. In fact its very simple. Ibanez SA220ex goes into a Marshall MG30DFX ( i have another question about doing somthing with the amp that i'll post somtime later, [come on ace stay on track here!!]) and that really is it. i use a piano footswitch that makes the notes hold on a piano, it can switch the amp from distortion to clean ( yes sad, i know). And i mean its not like i have only been playing a year or anything i just haven't gotten that inteseted in wattage and gear till now that i'm in a band and i want cooler sounds and better sounds. the marshall also has some built in effects ( delay, reverb, chorus, flanger /// all have are on the same knob and have another switch to turn the power of the effect up of down, not alot to work with but it helped me get into some effects) The band i am in plays mostly new punk stuff but we also do some metal and a little prog rock. I like sounds from those like blink-182, greenday, simle empty soul, nickelback , zakk wylde, ( doesn't he have a signiture pedal now?),avenged sevenfold, steve vai and others.

I like a lot of distortion sounds. i have heard the new distortion pedals by digitech at a music store and they sounds nice. Wahs and modulation effects. i am becoming more convinced of the pedal route so anyone know of any good gear to look out for?

or if you are a defender of the mutieffects pedals speak your mind please.

[themaidenmaniac]

BOSS GT6!!!

[themaidenmaniac]

Man, get a boss gt6, i promise you will not regret it if u can afford the damn thing.

It harbours the best sounds i've ever heard in digital.

Save yerself millions of patches and enjoy the huge diversification of the BOSS GT-6

I have had one for the last year and would never get rid of it now.

Just shout if u want to know anything about it

[Patrick Deno]

BeastofLove made some very good points for a multi-pedal rig system. I don't agree with most of those points but they were good none-the-less.



Now, if I may, I'd like to rebutt:

I started out, 20 some-odd years ago, with a bunch of stomp boxes/land mines and pretty much got what I payed for. Being poor at the time it was the only way to go as I couldn't afford much better. I, like Beast, graduated to all-in-one effects units years later, like the Digitech 2112, but unlike Beast I stayed.

I, personally, enjoy having everything in one unit. It's all there! Every pedal known to man is in that little box (overstating the point, of course, but ya know ) in my rack. I can dial up that perfect GAWD tone and SAVE it in a preset and with a touch of a pedal on the pedal board it's there at my command. I can switch between that GAWD sound and the other GAWD sound I found last week ON THE FLY, while STILL PLAYING GUITAR. I don't have to bend down in the middle of a song to adjust my land mines between sounds nor do I have to flamenco dance over several pedals.

Say I have a killer chunk distortion sound with chorus, a smidgion of delay, a dash of reverb and a splash of amp simulation to round out the tone. I want to jump to a sparkling clean sound with only a bit of compression for 2 bars of the song and then drop into a warm, overdrive tone with a backwards delay effect and a little flanger on it to make it airy for the bridge. Now the big finish, back to that gawd chunk we were talking about earlier.

Unless you're Michael Flatley of River Dance, you're going to have a heck of a time tap dancing all that together and making it sound good. With an "all-in-one" that would be only 4 pedal pushes because you'd programmed all that ahead of time.

Beast makes a good point about FUTURE UPGRADABILITY. He seems to fail to remember though that most A-I-O units have effects loops for adding other effects later. He also talks about how you might get tired of certain effects and, in the case of his example, distortion. Well, most good A-I-O units have more then one type of gain that you can choose from and even some of the newer "modelers", the Line6 Vetta for example, can mix different gain types/models to create your own, very unique sound. Don't like it? Tweak it a little and make it sound totally different! With a good midi pedal board to help, I can access as many of these pre-programmed tones as I care to use without having to tap dance. Most units will even allow you to switch modes on the pedal board from selecting programs to selecting individual effects within each program - just like a chain of land mines. How's THAT for versitility?!

The point was made earlier that you need a computer science degree to be able to use/program one of these units and that's really not true. I've worked with many of these units over the years and have never found one too hard to understand after taking a few minutes to read the manual and familiarise one's self with the controls. No, in most cases, you can't just dive in and start tinkering and expect to get that GAWD tone we're all looking for right off the bat. It takes time and a little effort on your part. Even with stomp boxes it takes time so why not do it right?

The point here is this: asking us for advice is great but in the end you will get nothing but oppinions. Do some research and a whole lot of listening to the units on your list and find the given path that suits your needs. For Beast it's a chain of land mines, for me it's an all-in-one unit - neither of us are right and neither of us are wrong. For each of us our systems work for what we want out of them and our unique phylosophy of tone. Shop around, test drive everything you can get your hands on and then make a decission for yourself what's right for how you play, where you play, how often and what effects/tones you'll need to accomplish your task.

Good luck,

LJ

[BeastofLove]

Hehe... I am the Lord of the Dance.

You bring up great points, and I totally respect that- I think we've given Ace here a lot to think about!

A quick note though on this section here:

Originally Posted by Patrick Deno

Say I have a killer chunk distortion sound with chorus, a smidgion of delay, a dash of reverb and a splash of amp simulation to round out the tone. I want to jump to a sparkling clean sound with only a bit of compression for 2 bars of the song and then drop into a warm, overdrive tone with a backwards delay effect and a little flanger on it to make it airy for the bridge. Now the big finish, back to that gawd chunk we were talking about earlier.

That sort of thing isn't really hard to do with pedals, but you're right, you have to really get that dance down. And sometimes you have to make compromises... like maybe you won't hit that delay as well and just be satisfied switching from heavy distortion to clean without jumping to get the delay also. Maybe you'll just catch it in the next measure.

But it brings up another interesting point that I just thought about- when switching patches in the multieffects units... say from a crystal clean, to a bluesy OD, to a heavy dist., I find that my fundamental tone changes way too much- like it's 3 totally different guitar sounds. It's a personal preference thing, but when I add effects, I want it to sound like it's still me playing my RGT3120 through a Rivera M60... just with some effects. I suppose I just find the multieffect units a little too exaggerated for my taste and they seem to alter the signal too much. The POD was a great example... no matter what you plug in (generalizing here), it sounds like generic guitar through a POD.... you can't really tell what guitar that is... Tele, LP, Jem... doesn't make a difference.

BUT- on a budget, given your current setup Ace, the GT6 wouldn't be a bad thing. Just try it out through your amp 1st before you buy it to make sure it doesn't sound particularly buzzy or anything. I think the GT6 is a good multieffect unit. And it should hold you over until you can buy some decent pedals :P . Reading about your setup, it does seem like the first thing I'd buy is a better amp though. $500 or so for a Fender Hot Rod DeVille 2x12 could simply do wonders for you and they've been written up multiple times as one of the most effect-friendly amps available. I think both guitarists for the Strokes are using them, and I recently saw Mike Keneally's guitarist, Rick Musallam, using a DeVille also.

I'll stick with my land-mines, Patrick can stick with his flight console

-Ben

[Patrick Deno]

"Uh, tower? This is flight LJ-777 comming in for a landing, over!"

He he he

Originally Posted by BeastofLove

But it brings up another interesting point that I just thought about- when switching patches in the multieffects units... say from a crystal clean, to a bluesy OD, to a heavy dist., I find that my fundamental tone changes way too much- like it's 3 totally different guitar sounds. It's a personal preference thing, but when I add effects, I want it to sound like it's still me playing my RGT3120 through a Rivera M60... just with some effects. I suppose I just find the multieffect units a little too exaggerated for my taste and they seem to alter the signal too much. The POD was a great example... no matter what you plug in (generalizing here), it sounds like generic guitar through a POD.... you can't really tell what guitar that is... Tele, LP, Jem... doesn't make a difference.

Yes, that can happen with some units. Personally, I like my Line6 Flextone II HD (about $500 used on e[vil]Bay w/wo pedal board) to sound like different amps from program to program. It saves having to have that many amps on stage all at one time and you get the best of all worlds. I like the typical Mesa chunk tone for rhythm, sweet Marshall tone for solo, quacky-warm Fender tone for clean. It still sounds like ME and my Jem7CVBK, just through different amps. Again, it comes down to personal preference.

Originally Posted by BeastofLove

I think we've given Ace here a lot to think about!

Amen, brother! Which was the point. Give the man enough info, from both phylosophies, to be able to make his own educated decission.
Respec' & peace!

I also concur with Beast on the need for a better amp. Your little Marshall is more designed as a practice-alone/with-a-CD-player amp then a gigging/practice-with-a-band amp. You're not going to be able to cut through a mix of other instruments very well IMHO. I think before you worry about individual effects you would be smarter to invest a little of that hard earned cash into a better amplifier. Just my 0.02$ worth.

Hope this helps, Ace. Good luck,

LJ

[ace_of_spadezz]

Yea, there as been plenty of info and then sum! you guys have already been a great help in just the day or so this post has been up. this is the best guitar forum i have ever used!! . Most other ones i just quit because no one helps you just tryes to boost thier ego and a bunch of other crap. but i'm getting off topic here. yes i know that the marshall needs improvemeant but i got it because 1, i didn't needa whole latta watts then and i got it cheap // 2. i didn't have a lot of experiance with amps but i knew marshall had a good history and i knew since it was a marhsall i could trade it in or resell it for close to cost if i keept it nice. The hot rod devil looks like a good amp and i will DEfinalty try it out on my next visit to Guitar Center ( i should be in there a while given all the stuff you guys have talked about lol). i have tryed out a gt-6 before ( my friend has one) and it seems like a great canadatie for the multi-effects ( its kinda like an election now ). now that i think about it multi-effects pedals seem pretty good as far as tone and affordibily but i woiuld want to try one out a while before i got it ( can anyone ship it to me to use a few days?? just kidding i think i can talk my friend into letting me use it. well i guess thats it for me for now ,,,,,

but keep in with those posts i feel like i'm getting a lot better knowlege about both parties but i would like to know as much as you guys can offer,

amp tips would be nice too

thanks alot guys you rock!!

[tonluvara]

boss gt-6 it's really really versatile. i got much more tones than i thought i could get out of this unit. well sometimes i still combine it with other single pedals, mainly my hughes & kettner warp factor, but this gt-6 has been the bone to all my sound.

what i like the most on this unit is the versatility. i love the twin reverb amp simulation. and i could get crazy lead tones too. not to forget, other cool effects! it's fun to play around with.

and if you may get concerned about space, like i do sometimes, this gt-6 is really compact, compared to if ure getting all of the effects that are included in this unit.

about amps, i can only suggest the carvin sx-200d im using cos that's the only amp i've ever had but the amp isn't bad at all. i kinda hate the 1st channel though, never really get a good tone out of it. but the 2nd channel is just stunning. really amazing clean tone. a really good base for my distortion sounds. so i can't live without it

ps: how do you fix scratchy pots? the knobs on my carvin are producing really irritating scratchy, static sounds. i've opened it and had a good look. but i don't know how to clean it (it seemed pretty clean though), change the pots, or in short, i don't know what to do to it. any pointers guys?

[track7]

Hey welcome to the forum dude.

I'm going to take the middle ground somewhat and say that as in most things in life a healthy compromise can be the best bet.

I'm not goin to tell you what to do but here is my setup and take on it.

Basically i've been down the individual boss pedal route and the all in one multi-effect route (digitech 2120) and netier suited me and it wasn't until i got my first REAL amp that I realised that you need to make a compromise between programability, tone, ease of use etc.

What I do now is just choose the best tools for the job. Regardless of whether its in pedal or rack format. I know this isn't the cheapest option but its the ultimate in term of tone and configurabiltiy.

So basically I like to keep all of my actual signal changing fx like wah, whammy, ovedrive boxes, distortins, compressors blah blah in individual pedal format. This is the only way really for serious tone. I've never come across useable versions in a multi effect unit that do the amp justice (baring the modelling route which is something diferent i'll come to later)

So that all goes before the amp, but send/return fx like modulation effects and delay effects I like to have programability and one touch access. And becasue its more of an enhancement to the tone instead of processing teh whole signal having the effects in a high quality box isn't as crucial as the front end. Things like tge G-Force/G-Major are excellent for this as they go in the FX loop of the amp and bingo you then can call up your patches of modualtions and delays together.

The other option is somewhere inbetween. Line 6 do very nice stompbox modellors where its a pedal stompbox but has 16+ different delays (or another pedal does modualtions) and you can save up to 4 patch settings to 1 of 4 buttons on it. These are the perfect combination of stomp box ease and rack programability. And their tone is very nice too.

One other all in one option is to go the Line 6 amp/pod route with floorboard. There you get good convincing tones and pedals all in one with a pedal board to control it. I personally wouidnt use that for live work (I only use the pods in the studio) but many people do use a digital modelling rig for their live playing to great efforts and is definatley another route to perhaps look at.

I think great things can be said for either way its just for me i know i spent way too much money on all in ones and crappy stompers before realisng that you get what you pay for, i then started researching the tones i was looking for demoing the gear i was intersted in and then saved to aqquire it.

Good luck man

David

[themaidenmaniac]

Also i mite add that the gt-6 will sound awesome anyway through your marshall 30 dfx.

Ive made some bangin tones on mine, and it practically turns it into a valve amp tone when combined with the FDD

[Tom B]

i've also got a MG30 DFX, and I bought a Boss ME-50. It's way more simple then most multi-effects, it's got dedicated knobs, just like on the stomp boxes. it's relatively cheap(around 150$) and it sounds great IMO. Also, you have more then enough distortion or OD simulations, that are mostly good. You'll have more effects then you'll probably ever need, including wahwah and wammy.

[wildealien]

wow, it's the Jemsite Guide to Effects!

i concurr that the answer lies in the middle somewhere. myself, i'm looking to get myself a sound modulator like the G-Force for my effects loop in my amp, and stomp boxes for use before the amp. that seems to me to be the best way to go as far as good sound quality and versatility.