Eventide H3000 and Legacy effect loop?

stevevai · #1 12-13-2000, 08:55 AM

Hi folks? How can i connect my Eventide Harmonizer 3000 d/sx into the Legacy effect loop to achive the best possible sound? Is the effect loop on the Legacy in stereo? I would appreciate some help...

Oeyvind Lie
Norway (Jem 7sk and Jem7vwh)

tommy west · #2 12-16-2000, 12:28 PM

I had a custom cable built to "y" the outputs of the H3000 so it wouldn't burn out the unit. I forget the electronic jargon but you can't use a standard y. Plus I could never get a good level to the unit anyways. It depended on the volume of the amp-so I had to play at like 2 or 3 to get a good level to the unit.

Of course , on a Legacy this is incredibly loud as you may know. I gave up on it and was never satisfied. I will just use the H3000 on the studio side and add it in during mixdown.

Live, I will get a preamp/rack setup to use it as I never had an iota of a problem with that setup. Good luck, and sorry I could not be more helpful. If you find a good way to do it, let me know here.

wyldbill · #3 12-18-2000, 02:25 PM

Oeyvind-

I don't know what options the H3K has, but the Legacy is NOT stereo. It has a single pre-amp and a single poweramp. You'll need another head or a stereo power amp to run in stereo.

-bill

tommy west · #4 12-18-2000, 03:22 PM

Or said adapter custom made for ya. In the end it would still suck I think. No seperation that is.

wyldbill · #5 12-18-2000, 03:44 PM

tommy-
Yup, sorry. Should have read your post more carefully. When I think "Stereo" I think "Two different signals all the way to the air"

tommy west · #6 12-18-2000, 04:50 PM

Therein lies the problem with the Legacy. Unless you have two and even then, it would be nice to have a send level for effects.

goldboy · #7 12-19-2000, 03:21 PM

Just so you know, the Y cable custom that another post referred to can be simply a "Balanced" *Y cable where the tip ring sleeve of the INSERT POINT (1/4" of course) is balanced to two separate XLR connectors wired the same way (I believe the eventide is PIN 2hot) You can get this cable from Guitar Center (HOSA makes it). They're a little pricey but well worth it.

Now for issue number two...yes, you should be able to make the effects loop sound delicious with the Legacy amp. *Modify the input decibel level of the H3000 unit so that your meter reads semi hot to hot all the time and then adjust the send of the H3000 (output levels) to compensate for the signal going back into the Legacy.

here is a good example of what the above does.

You call up a patch like the multitap delay...(this effect is a good example as it is a nuance effect and is hard to hear if you don't dial it in right). *set your input levels so that the effects send of the Legacy keeps the Eventide fed hot. Now work with fixing the output levels of the Eventide to make the effect YOU HEAR to what you want to hear..if the output is too hot, you won't hear the harmonic deliciousness of the delays that the signal is giving, if it is too little you will hear too little delay or none at all (none at all sounds like a little reverbish sound). *It is up to your taste.

A little tweaking is all it takes (and a sunday!).

Take care

ripl3y · #8 12-19-2000, 03:32 PM

Off topic a bit, but when I saw the originators name "stevevai" I thought OMG! steve's posted on the site

DOH!!!

Steve

tommy west · #9 12-19-2000, 03:42 PM

Goldboy , wrong on the y cable. There needs to be a capacitor installed to prevent the output amps of the h3000 from burning out. Any electronics whizzes here? I will try to find out the reason again as I have forgotten it. But the explanation I gave comes close in lamens terms. *Try it and find out...an expensive proposition.

goldboy · #10 12-19-2000, 03:50 PM

Tommy, could you forward me that information?!

I could use it...and I have been using the balanced XLR to 1/4 insert method to no problems. I used to have the H3500 for about two years with constant use in a 'stereo effects loop' using the balanced insert y cable with no 'capacitor' and it worked just fine with no burnout.

Currently I acquired the DSX model and am applying the same principal. It will concern me now and have me running to the home studio to switch to a mixer line inserts to my effects loop if that is the case.

I'll e-mail Eventide right now for a clarification!!

THANKS AGAIN TOMMY.

goldboy · #11 12-19-2000, 04:00 PM

Another note I forgot to mention:

The effects send that I used on both my boogie amp (both the DC combo and Marshall head) have a Level FX send pot so that I can tweak the amount of signal sent regardless (somewhat regardless) of the level of output I was going on the amp itself.

It's a helpful option. I dunno if the legacy has it.

goldboy · #12 12-19-2000, 05:58 PM

Tommy:

I am not picking bones here, but I am very interested in hearing about the possible blow to the output of the Eventide. I presented your example and suggestion to CJ at Eventide Inc. and his exact quote was:

"There is no special 'Y' connector that I am aware of"

also as I suggested the best way to use the Eventide in a live guitar rig setup is in the fx loop of "any" amp as also suggested by CJ.

PLEASE don't misinterpret me as "you're wrong I was right"...in the world of electronic gear, the most informed is benefited and more the wiser...

Thanks and hope to hear from you.

Paul

tommy west · #13 12-19-2000, 06:07 PM

I have a good friend I used to work with at a sound company in Nashville. He is the chief engineer/technician and designer there. The man is a genious and lets not the slightest detail go by. Sometimes, this trait bugged the crap out of me on a daily basis, but I believe the man.

No, there is no "special" y cable on the market for this. He designed according to the application I was using it for. Of course, I hated the sound of a y'd H3000 in the effects loop of the Legacy anyway and no longer use it.

Two F xlrs to a female 1/4"barrel. A capacitor is installed in each of the xlrs. He was adamant about this and I trust his judgement. It may just be a safeguard, but I would trust him implicitly. I will try to dig it out and get capacitor values and pinouts later on.

The absolute best thing to do is simply have a freakin' stereo rig for it. The Legacy has no send level and that was a pain to me as well.

Just sharing info...hope it was helpful....

tommy west · #14 12-22-2000, 10:54 AM

Here are the details...straight from the horse's mouth.As for the cable for your FX unit, if you were to simply 'y' the outputs it
would put too heavy of a load on the output amps, and depending on how the
output circuit is designed, the results would vary from very low output
level, excessive distortion, or no output at all. *The 'Y' cable that I
built for you has series summing resistors (300 ohm per leg). *You will lose
typically 3-6db with these resistors, depending on load impedance, but if
you're summing two discreet channels together with the same program
material, this will result in a 6db increase in level. *Anyhow, that cable
is primarily designed to eliminate output amplifier distortion with a heavy
load.

There you have it....

stevevai · #15 12-22-2000, 03:47 PM

Thanks for all the help, although it has confused me a little... *I think the solution for me is to not use the Eventide in the Carvin effects loop at all...

Merry Christ(Axe)mas
Oeyvind Lie
Norway