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17K views 117 replies 36 participants last post by  racerevlon 
#1 ·
Hei guys, its me again with this slightly provocative statement.
How reasonable is it to lets say invest 3000 Euro in a boutique amp for an average guitar player. There is that expression saying "its all in the fingers" which ultimately isn`t quite correct because the fingers just do what your brain tells them, so its ultimately in the brain.
But to make a long story short do we really sound "3200 Euro better" with a 3500 Euro Cornford than with a 300 Euro Peavey Valveking. I am not so sure especially if you use a POD or something like that to boost/ modify your Valveking.
Ok last but not least its an individual decision if you think that invesmtent is worth it or not. But imagine you would know you die in exactly 12 month and you had to choose between the Peavey Valveking and one bottle of quality wine each evening + a 2 weeks trip to the Seychelles or no wine and no trip and just the expensive boutique amp.
What would you choose. Is the tone difference really worth 3000 Euro?
 
#68 ·
I skipped most of the bickering because frankly I don't care.

I can see it both ways. My main rig is a UV7PWH into a Mesa Nomad 45 2x12. Sure, it's not the top-of-the-line Mesa, but I personally like it more than the Rectos, and can;t get as good crunch tones from a Mark, so it's sort of the best of both worlds. The PWH is, well, a PWH, even if mine's a total player. It's a pretty kickass sounding rig, and while not uber-botique by any means, it's still hardly "budget," and it sounds like you'd expect a rig like this to sound - pretty f'in awesome.

Meanwhile, the Nomad's in for repairs at the moment, so I picked up a Tech-21 Trademark-30 used for $185 to hold me over. Additionally, my go-to rhythm guitar is a Schecter C7 Blackjack, which can be had new for $599. This is definitely "affordable" gear, by any definition.

But you know what? My Nomad's been sitting in the trunk of my car for the last week simply because I've had so much fun playing the Trademark (particularly the "Brit" preamp - if I could find a Marshall that actually sounded like that, I'd be a convert) that it just hasn't been a priority to get my amp in for work. Simply put, it's a great-sounding and FUN rig to play for, even if it was cheap and is the size of a budget Crate combo. Meanwhile, the C7 Blackjack was a replacement for a 2nd gen. J-Custom RG7CST that was just too nice for me to feel comfortable playing, and while I won't even pretend the C7 is the same quality guitar as the CST, it's still an excellent-quality guitar, and i can say with a perfectly clear conscience that I do not miss or regret selling the CST in the least.

Of course, to pick up on the "if I could find a Marshall that actually sounded this good" comment from a bit earlier - I'm pretty sure I can, and that it'll say "Bogner" on the front of the head. Do I want an Exctacy? In the worst way, and if I could afford one I'd totally do it.

So, I don't call expensive gear a waste of money. I've played a few botique or high-dollar amps in my day, and have been seriously impressed with all of them, even the ones that just weren't for me. At the same time, you also clearly don't NEED expensive gear to get good tone or have fun playing, and in some cases (particularly, for me, rare and collectable guitars), I actually have fun playing the cheaper, non-collectable stuff because I'm not afraid I'm going to hurt it (the PWH was already pretty broken in when I got her. :D).
 
#73 ·
Didn`t want to start a war with that thread. Unlike som other members of this forum i think thats a legitimate question. I would consider myself as having a quite relaxed attitude regarding what other people do or not do. I don`t judge other people neither on the basis of the amount of guitars they have nor on the basis of how expensive these guitars are. I wouldn`t make a judgment about a person on the basis of his her abiltiy to play the guitar either and i would definitively not look down on someone just because she/ he plays bad or has a cheap or expensive or whatsoever equipment. I would consider a person who does that as being quite close minded. So no offenses whatsoever. I think its quite an intersting question and i want to thank all of you who contributed with their opinions. As i said before i have quite a good overview regarding classical guitars after playing a lot of them and wouldn`t have a problem to order one via the Internet. I don`t have the same experience with amps so its very interesting to me to see what you guys have to say about that. And by the way- if i had the money i wouldn`t hesitate a second to buy me that Centenario i talked about.
 
#74 ·
Cool. Good luck with whatever you buy, I hope you enjoy it. If I can just clear something up before I'm out of this thread, I agree with your last post totally. All I am opposed to is being made to feel like crap by those who think that owning expensive gear somehow makes them more important and "cool" than the next man. Plenty of my friends have silly amounts of expensive gear, their houses are like guitar stores, but they are great people who work hard for what they own and appreciate everything they've got. Some of them are very generous and have helped me out when I really needed it. Likewise, I would do the same for them if I was in a position to do so. I meant no offense to the people here, sorry to those who took everything the wrong way.
 
#75 ·
I get jealous of people with good equipment. Well not so much since I got my RG 2550. But I'd love to have the money to pamper myself with expensive gear. Even if everyone on this site can play better than me. But I wouldn't brag to everyone about it. Mmmmmm expensive guitars.
 
#77 ·
Hei Dee,
regarding what you wrote: "All I am opposed to is being made to feel like crap by those who think that owning expensive gear somehow makes them more important and "cool" than the next man"
i agree with you on that- Some people minds work in mysterious ways. But i don`t look down on them for that, i just feel sorry for them.
 
#80 · (Edited)
Interesting topic. Simple economics; generally you do get what you pay for. Back when I was new to guitar by just a few years, I actually built up my collection to a total of 11 guitars. I had one 12-string Samick acoustic that was decent, a few intermediate Jacksons, and the other 7 or 8 guitars were a bunch of $100 pawn shop specials. Only a few of the bunch were worth keeping, and today I have my total down to 3 guitars. Now I'm able to afford nice pickups for them though, and it's not as much maintenece changing strings, haha.

I will say, it was fun collecting cheap guitars, but in the long run not-so-much worth it. Also, I did learn the rule which every guitarist should know at this point: "the amp is more influential on your sound than the guitar". An exception is if your guitar is made of plywood and has refrigerator magnent pickups wound with kite string. Though generally, yes, the amp is the most important and it should bring out the character of each guitar you play though it.

Reading and research can save you a lot of cash, and open your mind to new gear. I've been following this logic in recent years, and though it makes me now prefer more expensive equipment, it works out for the better. If you're patient, you can find a way to save money and still have a quality guitar, amp or effects unit. I'm using an all rack amp right now, which is not an obvious choice considering how uncommon this type of setup is. It sounds great to my ears and everything in the rack only cost me $800 total (I modded the preamp myself, and patiently awaited good deals on the other pieces of gear). I'm still a fairly cheap spender, but I do not think that expensive equipment is a waste of money.
 
#83 ·
I dont think so, when i started learning to play guitar i was given a squier strat to learn on and used that through my dads marshall combo at the time, i sat and learnt quite a bit, enjoyed it and all, but didnt play loads.

After about 8 months, my dad was playing less and less, so he decided to get rid of the Jem BFP he had and buy a gibson, since it was less hassle (bridge and all) so he gave me the Jem. Call it coincidence if you want, but when i got that, almost every spare hour of my day went into playing guitar for the next few years or so. I think good gear insipires people who are learning to play and practice harder, especially if its a signature guitar on a young impressionable mind :lol:

The only bad part now is im pretty fussy when it comes to my gear, i know what i like and i have to pay pretty good to get it. In general anyway.
 
#84 ·
Well, that's just it: Good gear does NOT equal expensive gear. I have several Squier Strats that, if they weren't good, I wouldn't own them. However, they were some of my best bang for the buck. I own an Ibanez RG220, that I changed out the stock pickups, and now it kills, and stays in tune, beautifully. I've had MANY major guitar brands in my 27 years of playing, and not all of them were great. These days, I don't bank on brand name recognition. I bank on the quality of the individual instrument in question. THAT, my friends, is the TRUE way to buy.
 
#91 ·
For what it's worth, every major, major jazz dude playing in Sydney at the moment (and they are all amazingly good!) seems to play a cheap Telecaster clone stripped back to the wood....

And they can all play circles around me, or for that matter anyone else I know who has "expensive" gear! Oh yeah, and they all sound superb!
 
#94 ·
For me 3 things are important when considering new gear.Reliability,playability and good sounding.A guitar must stay in tune,sound decent and be easy to play.An amp must sound good and be reliable.I like good looking stuff with all the trimmings, but if it doesn't meet the above criteria it doesn't stay around long.I'm gigging in one band and getting ready to gig with another band.Plus throw a recording project in the mix and I can't afford timewise to always be messing with or repairing stuff.My experience has been,Cheap gear= frustration.Mid priced=adequate and usable,very expensive=fun,but not miles above mid priced,usually an eye candy factor attached.The only exception would be some boutique amp tones= big dough if you just have to have that tone.Fortunately,I don't.Its true if you sound crappy on a 15watt practice amp,you will sound crappy through a full stack.Its also true that a good player can make cheap gear sound good.I know there is some kid right now sitting in his bedroom playing a cheap copy guitar through a cheap ss amp having hours and hours of fun playing and he could probably play circles around me because he doesn't care about gear,only playing.But I know when he gets in a band and can't decide what gear he wants,he will waste all his playing time on the internet posting.Thus not threatening my meager musical carreer!
 
#96 ·
CNC machines have next to nothing to do with quality, they all get checked and thats where quality drops.

Gibsons and Epiphones are nothing like each other, theres been a few of both in my house and the gibsons and miles ahead, maybe not £1300 ahead, but still pretty far.

They dont even have the same clears, the woods better quality and everything.
 
#97 ·
That's interesting, because I had an Epiphone Les Paul, whereas the other two guitar players in my band had actual Gibsons. All three of us agreed that mine played much better than theirs. They were amazed, as was I.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Never just go by name. Go by the actual, individual instrument. Dino is right: The cheap stuff IS much better than it used to be, and I'm willing to bet that anybody that doesn't realize that, wasn't around 20 years or more ago, to remember just how BAD the cheaper guitars WERE.
 
#98 ·
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Never just go by name. Go by the actual, individual instrument.
+100%

My #1 gigging guitar is an Epiphone SG that's been pimped up with new electrics. It's had a full setup including a light fret dress in a couple of areas and it plays superbly. Everyone who's played it have commented on it as being a great SG. A mate of mine even think's it's the best playing/sounding guitar in my collection.
 
#99 ·
Here's my take on it: I started playing about 30 years ago and over the next 10 years played on dirt cheap 'instruments'. They were total sh1t and would never sound any better. I gave up to concentrate on other things and only started again last year. I own 3 Epiphones which I like well enough, but I also have a LP, a J-Custom, a Jem7VWH and just bought a VG Strat.

I have the money to pay for expensive equipment (within reason) without running into debt. I have scrimped over the last 25 years to do so and I am perfectly entitled to enjoy my middle aged crisis in any manner I see fit. Guitars are considerably cheaper than sports cars, so there isn't any room for complaint.

I bought them for myself and myself alone, and I enjoy every moment I spend with them. Anyone who says there's anything wrong with that can get well and truly stuffed.

Menopausal (female or male) guitarists of the world unite!
 
#102 ·
I think the kicker here is whether you're happy with the feel of what's in your hands and the sound that comes out of your amp. If you love the way a Crate 15-watt solid state combo sounds, mic that beyotch up and go to town. If you like the way the Squier feels over the American Strat, buy the Squier.

I have 33 guitars and a plethora of amps. Why? Because to me, there's something special about each one. I like the way my Ibanez guitars with Wizard necks feel overall. I like the punchy sound of my Les Paul Limited. I like the warmer sound of my Epiphone Les Paul Standard. My Squier strat (with Dimarzio Virtual Vintage pickups) sounds every bit as good (to me) as every American Fender I've played (ok, so possibly I'm tone deaf). I traded my Marshalls for Hughes & Kettner because I can get the Marshall sound with them, and more! I love my little VOX Valvetronix 30-watt for quick "plug and play" practicing at low volumes. I'm having tons of fun playing with my new GT-8. My hot-rodded Epiphone Valve Junior 5-watt head running through a 4x12 produces tone that most Marshall fans would die for.

Bottom line--the money's spent. I'm not wishing I'd bought this or that or the other thing. I like what I feel and what I hear. I play ALL of my guitars and amps. If I don't touch a guitar or amp in over 6 months, it gets sold for extra $$$ to buy something else. I'm happy. My friend bought a Marshall JVM head. It sounds great!!! I'm not buying one. He has his tone, I have mine. The world has changed--Marshall stacks have been replaced by GarageBand software and Pro Tools. Class A is back. Mic your combo, or run your GT-8 straight to the board. Find YOUR tone... and conquer the world with it.
 
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